Another EMS ship down today

[FlyNHighNFast]

More bad/sad news for our EMS bethren. RIP

 

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/25/faa-3...r-crash/?hpt=T2

[PlatoNC]

"Asked who decides whether the weather is clear enough for a pilot to fly using VFR, Lunsford said, "There are operating guidelines in any aviation operation, but ultimately the pilot is responsible for [the] safety of [the] aircraft and deciding whether to go forward or not.""

 

 

Something worth remembering whatever industry you're working in. As they say, learn from the mistakes of others, you won't live long enough to make them all yourself. May your passing not be in vain. Fly Safe everyone.

[Wally]

What our (WREG) radar looked like at the time of the crash

 

"When in doubt, chicken out"- and do so early, because it gets hard when you're so close to destination. Really, really hard.

[bobbycreager943]

I was reading an article regarding the EMS fatality issues going on and what they were implying was that EMS must upgrade instruments and equipment and most importantly switch to having two pilots instead of one. They said Canada is required to and the coast guard. They also commented that they resistance came from the cost to implement this stuff....

 

Very interesting stuff.

[Wally]

I was reading an article regarding the EMS fatality issues going on and what they were implying was that EMS must upgrade instruments and equipment and most importantly switch to having two pilots instead of one. They said Canada is required to and the coast guard. They also commented that they resistance came from the cost to implement this stuff....

 

Very interesting stuff.

 

IFR and twins in EMs come to grief at about the same rate as VFR singles. The overall industry statistics generally follow that trend. What does make a difference in those (overall industry) stats is two-pilot crews. As US EMS is for profit and costs directly affect the bottom line, I don't see two-pilot crews here. Call it resistance or accepting the mathematics of reality, as you like.

 

That said, there is undeniably room for improvement in US EMS. My opinion is that lazy people, management and pilots alike, allow pilots to be scheduled for nights without adequate scientific consideration of KNOWN issues with sudden shift changes.

NVGs also increase the safety of night operations. They are being deployed.

[bobbycreager943]

Point taken. I think(hope) we will see much improvment in the next couple of years.

[delorean]

What does make a difference in those (overall industry) stats is two-pilot crews. As US EMS is for profit and costs directly affect the bottom line, I don't see two-pilot crews here. Call it resistance or accepting the mathematics of reality, as you like.

 

Two pilot crews = twin engine a/c too. Not going to find a single engine helicopter that can be configured to have two pilots up front, or have enough spare payload to carry 4 crewmembers total.

 

Twin engines means twice the $$$$ for fuel and maintenance. More mechanics, more spare parts, larger hangars, etc. Not gonna happen.....or if it does, the HEMS industry will cease to exist except for the hospital programs (like it used to be, which brings a whole 'nuther set of problems.)

 

What we need is virtual co-pilot, meaning AUTOPILOT. With all this solid state electronics and GPS they should be able to make a lightweight autopilot. The old Collins, Bendix, etc systems were 100+ lbs. No one wants the liability though. Autopilots & NVGs would have prevented most of these CFIT accidents.

[jumpngonuts]

Two pilot crews = twin engine a/c too. Not going to find a single engine helicopter that can be configured to have two pilots up front, or have enough spare payload to carry 4 crewmembers total.

 

Twin engines means twice the $$$$ for fuel and maintenance. More mechanics, more spare parts, larger hangars, etc. Not gonna happen.....or if it does, the HEMS industry will cease to exist except for the hospital programs (like it used to be, which brings a whole 'nuther set of problems.)

 

What we need is virtual co-pilot, meaning AUTOPILOT. With all this solid state electronics and GPS they should be able to make a lightweight autopilot. The old Collins, Bendix, etc systems were 100+ lbs. No one wants the liability though. Autopilots & NVGs would have prevented most of these CFIT accidents.

 

I'm about 5,000 hours from ever being a ems pilot, but here's my two cents worth.. From what I've learned from being around ems aircraft on a routine basis being a firefighter/emt, I think our dispatchers need to use a little common sense. If we have a MVA with a trap and call for a bird and the first service declines due to weather then stop at that provider instead of calling around trying to get somebody to accept it... You can have auto pilots and the best avionics you can buy, but nothing will replace common sense.. I'll shut up now

[Goldy]

What our (WREG) radar looked like at the time of the crash

 

I hate hearing about this loss, but just looking at that weather radar would scare me to death. Dispatchers can't see that coming?

[Wally]

I'm about 5,000 hours from ever being a ems pilot, but here's my two cents worth.. From what I've learned from being around ems aircraft on a routine basis being a firefighter/emt, I think our dispatchers need to use a little common sense. If we have a MVA with a trap and call for a bird and the first service declines due to weather then stop at that provider instead of calling around trying to get somebody to accept it... You can have auto pilots and the best avionics you can buy, but nothing will replace common sense.. I'll shut up now

 

I don't want anybody making WX decisions for me, one way or the other. Most pilots feel that way, but there's a divide amongst my peers when it comes to answering a call declined by another service. At the most pronounced extreme, some pilots will decline any flight another service has turned down. There are so many variables in what I consider in evaluating a request that I believe an automatic turndown is simplistic if not lazy.

 

EMS has an obvious problem at night. Weather is a 24 hour consideration. Seems to me that blaming weather ONLY when it's dark is a case of not seeing the forest for the trees.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Wally

[delorean]

I'm about 5,000 hours from ever being a ems pilot, but here's my two cents worth.. From what I've learned from being around ems aircraft on a routine basis being a firefighter/emt, I think our dispatchers need to use a little common sense. If we have a MVA with a trap and call for a bird and the first service declines due to weather then stop at that provider instead of calling around trying to get somebody to accept it... You can have auto pilots and the best avionics you can buy, but nothing will replace common sense.. I'll shut up now

 

That might seem like the answer, but it's not. Here's why:

 

You call for a helicopter, CompanyA is 20 miles SOUTH, CompanyB is 30 miles EAST, and CompanyC is 40 miles NORTHWEST. The hospital is due north from the scene. There is a thunderstorm to the south moving east, so Company A&B turn the flight down and C takes it. Does it make them dangerous? Nope, their weather is clear for the entire flight.

 

So do you want to be the patient in this situation where a dispatcher is deciding if the weather is good?? No, leave that decision to the pilot. If you let dispatcher turn down flights for pilots, the next thing that is going to happen is that they'll start accepting them for pilots. Bad idea.

 

Another [true] example, we have a competitor down the highway from us that will always turn flights down for "weather" near shift change, or their dispatch says "weather" anytime they are short staffed or performing maintenance. It's an attempt to make us look bad when we accept the flight. But they're the ones that look stupid when the WX is clear and you can see maintenance stands flanking the helicopter on the pad.

 

What you described is called "helicopter shopping". And the answer is not to completely stop it. What needs to happen is that the calling agency needs to inform the second called provider that the first turned it down and for what. Under CAMTS, we are required to ask, "has any other air service declined this flight for WX, or is another air service responding?" Most of the large operators participate in http://www.weatherturndown.com

 

You can try to make as many rules, risk assessments, & procedures as you want, you're not going to stop the "white knight" syndrome. A few pilots + crews with that and "get-home-ites" will still agree to bust minimums and get killed. The best you can do is give them equipment and training that they hopefully get away with it.