Flight Training Using Chapter 31 Benefits?

[mechanic]

Texas Veterans Commission

 

Have any of you contacted this org? They approve VA programs for the VA.

 

Northern SP,

There is a rule listed that states that the VA will pay for even a Recreational License IF required for a degree program. The problem was that the VA use to use Vocational Flight Training terms. Now they just say flight training. SO, they are trying to eliminate this rule, I am sure it's a matter of time before this rule in question is removed.

 

There was such a thing as a split program. You take college classes during spring/fall and summer semester was the flight training portion at a local school that was 141 VA approved. Not sure if they do that any longer either.

[NorthernSP]

The exemption for getting training as a part of a degree program paid for doesn't list chapter 31. Nobody seems to understand the intent- no reason is suggested for not covering the first (and largest) phase of flight training. I think it's worth clarifying with the TX board though, thanks for the link.

[mechanic]

The exemption for getting training as a part of a degree program paid for doesn't list chapter 31. Nobody seems to understand the intent- no reason is suggested for not covering the first (and largest) phase of flight training. I think it's worth clarifying with the TX board though, thanks for the link.

 

 

The VA use to say that Chap 31 was under the same rules as Chap 30 but since the Post 9/11 Bill, who knows for sure. They are working to eliminate the MGIB all together.

[tazpilot68]

Here is something that I have found out over the past couple of days and I'm pursuing it hard and heavy.

 

I talked to a guy in Chicago who is using Utah Valley online...(mechanic, this is the school you and I discussed in detail before) and the VA has paid his FULL tuition to AMERICAN FLYERS. He has NO private license. Another guy I spoke with in Dallas HAS his private, but, the VA NEVER asked him for proof. The best thing we can figure, the difference in their schooling and mine, is I was seeking an Associate's Degree. Both of these guys' VA counselors told them they had to get a Bachelor's Degree.

 

I am currently awaiting to hear back from the Dallas VA office, and I am going to resume talks with my VA counselor in Houston. The guy up in Dallas is using Thomas Edison online.

 

If these guys are getting then by God, so should we!!!!!!!!

 

I'll keep you posted.

[Trenton0405]

Here is something that I have found out over the past couple of days and I'm pursuing it hard and heavy.

 

I talked to a guy in Chicago who is using Utah Valley online...(mechanic, this is the school you and I discussed in detail before) and the VA has paid his FULL tuition to AMERICAN FLYERS. He has NO private license. Another guy I spoke with in Dallas HAS his private, but, the VA NEVER asked him for proof. The best thing we can figure, the difference in their schooling and mine, is I was seeking an Associate's Degree. Both of these guys' VA counselors told them they had to get a Bachelor's Degree.

 

I am currently awaiting to hear back from the Dallas VA office, and I am going to resume talks with my VA counselor in Houston. The guy up in Dallas is using Thomas Edison online.

 

If these guys are getting then by God, so should we!!!!!!!!

 

I'll keep you posted.

I am in the same spot as you guys! I was first approved for everthing then just yesterday the VA called and said they had to write a new plan because I did not have my PPL. After seeing this forum and reading CFR 21.134 It is my understanding that because I am seeking a bachelors degree with required flight training that it should all be covered. My only viable option is to seek Finacial Aid for my Private license and hope that they cover rest. I am meeting with the college tomarrow and am going to talk to the military advocate and see if I can't try to crack this. Last time I talked to her she had called a different VRE counselor and he made it sound like it should'nt be a problem. Plus My counselor here in town said that once I start the program in Janusry that my file would be transfered to the VRE counselor at the College ( not sure if that will be a good thing or a bad thing). I'll let you know what happens.

[uberchris]

Ok so this post is really stirring some stuff up in my own head. i dug around the CFR's on the VA website myself, and some stuff is in the grey area concerning using Chp. 33 post 9/11 GI bill benefits. i have sent some email to some of the smaller flight schools partnered with acreddited schools, but does anyone know.......

 

do you have to have a PPL to utilize Chp. 33 post 9/11 benefits for an accredited degree program with flight training?

 

not trying to hijack the thread but im freaking out

[tazpilot68]

Uberchris....

 

It is our understanding that you DO NOT have to have your PPl to go through flight training under Ch. 33. That bill is supposed to pay for everything.....without worries.

[sunset_port]

The short version: Chapter 31 benefits WILL NOT pay for flight training UNLESS you already have your private pilot's license. And, even then, it's not a given.

 

The longer version: Six months later, I finally received a detailed explanation from someone within the VA who actually gives a damn (or at least went to the effort of pretending).

It seems that paragraph (f) of the above referenced CFR only applies to those who are pursuing educational benefits under Chapter 30, Chapter 32, or Chapter 35.

And, yes, the counselor readily admitted that the way in which the CFR 31 is formatted is confusing (to say the least), if not a bit misleading. But, then again, why should the VA be any different from any other governmental agency?

 

Should anyone want further clarification, contact my newly-assigned voc-rehab counselor, Mike Duke, at the Fort Worth, Texas office. His direct telephone number is: (817) 536-7058.

[gary-mike]

I feel for ya, I am in the same boat trying to use Ch33 and have been trying to make it work for a year now. As soon as I think I have it figured out, here comes more changes.

 

I think they are just trying to make us give up on our benefits and pay for a student loan. So far from what I have been hearing it is working, and they about have me to that point. If I thought I could survive and provide for my family and still be able to make the loan payments I would transfer the benefits to my kids and be at the bank.

 

One thing I have heard and have to try to work now is, "you have to physically attend the IHL" Takes out alot of schools utilizing UVU and thier online program. Another problem is working out payment, The VA sends the check to the IHL and they distrubute the payment for flight training "labs" to the flight school. In the case of UVU, they will give you the credit hrs for flight training you have taken through any qualifying flight school "VA approved and part 141", however they are not affiliated with any one rotor wing flight school. I'm not sure how accurate this all is, but I aim to find out and check out the references provided above.

 

Keep in mind, I am just sharing my frustrations and what I mentioned above pertains to using Ch33 (post 9/11 Bill), and not ch31.

 

Good luck and keep the posts up, I will take any and all information I can get.

Edited April 19, 2011 by gary-mike

[gary-mike]

Ok so this post is really stirring some stuff up in my own head. i dug around the CFR's on the VA website myself, and some stuff is in the grey area concerning using Chp. 33 post 9/11 GI bill benefits. i have sent some email to some of the smaller flight schools partnered with acreddited schools, but does anyone know.......

 

do you have to have a PPL to utilize Chp. 33 post 9/11 benefits for an accredited degree program with flight training?

 

not trying to hijack the thread but im freaking out

 

Not from What I have read and been told, big problem is finding the schools that fit the bill, and a VA rep that knows the program.

 

Oh and the new program that starts in OCT, that sucks too. sounds nice for a min. getting $10,000 a year with no college classes ect., But then you realize your benefits last 4 years and $40k covers only half the training, and probably even less when you figure you have to drag out your flying over 4 years.

[iChris]

The short version: Chapter 31 benefits WILL NOT pay for flight training UNLESS you already have your private pilot's license. And, even then, it's not a given.

 

The longer version: Six months later, I finally received a detailed explanation from someone within the VA who actually gives a damn (or at least went to the effort of pretending).

It seems that paragraph (f) of the above referenced CFR only applies to those who are pursuing educational benefits under Chapter 30, Chapter 32, or Chapter 35.

And, yes, the counselor readily admitted that the way in which the CFR 31 is formatted is confusing (to say the least), if not a bit misleading. But, then again, why should the VA be any different from any other governmental agency?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERKJKeMik0k

 

This post was started in July 2010 and it's almost July 2011, "time's a wastin". You could have already completed a PPL (FW) some were in an old Cessna 152. That's if you want it that bad. Many of the Vietnam era guys had to obtain their PPL (in an aircraft) before benefits would kick-in.

 

It maybe a hard pill to take, but there's no benevolent government waiting with open arms for the troops. Red tape and delays are the norm.

 

"The needs of our veterans are detailed in two decades of scientific research reviewed by the RAC and IOM as well as countless Congressional investigations, hearings, and reports. However, VA's Research Office has failed Gulf War veterans for two decades. This absolutely vital hearing represents VA's last chance to get it right so Gulf War veterans have a reasonable chance at answers, treatments and benefits in our lifetime.

 

After 20 years of waiting, we refuse to wait on more empty promises from VA. The first step is for Secretary Shinseki and Chief of Staff Gingrich to immediately clean house of VA bureaucrats who have so utterly and miserably failed our veterans for too long. Our bottom line is clear: we urge VA Secretary Shinseki to quickly implement the recommendations we make in our petition sent to VA today. If VA does not immediately take action, we urge Congress to continue holding hearings and passing legislation so VA is held accountable for taking care of our veterans. Our waiting must end now."

 

Paul Sullivan, Executive Director of Veterans for Common Sense, before the House Committee on Veterans' Affair,s (2010)

 

And the waiting continues on.

 

"Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy." – Henry Kissinger, quoted in "Kiss the Boys Goodbye: How the United States Betrayed Its Own POW's in Vietnam" by Monika Jensen-Stevenson

 

Veterans of the first Gulf War can't get treatment; Army admits medical records were destroyed

 

There's a book out by Jesse Ventura, 63 Documents The Government Doesn't Want You To Read" that outlines, in their own words, how the elite controllers in government really think and operate.

Edited April 19, 2011 by iChris

[gary-mike]

 

This post was started in July 2010 and it's almost July 2011, "time's a wastin". You could have already completed a PPL (FW) some were in an old Cessna 152. That's if you want it that bad. Many of the Vietnam era guys had to obtain their PPL (in an aircraft) before benefits would kick-in.

 

It maybe a hard pill to take, but there's no benevolent government waiting with open arms for the troops. Red tape and delays are the norm.

 

 

You are right Chris, and eventually the benefits will expire. In my case though I have been looking into this for a year also but, I am still active duty and planning to go for retirement so I have time. I just hope I can get started before they stop paying for flight training all together.

 

Too bad my base doesn't have an Aero club anymore, that would make it a whole lot easier to get a private in a plank.

[sunset_port]

'Tis true... There is not now, nor has there ever been, a benevolent government. Fortunately, we have sanctimonious jackasses to point out the error of our ways.

Thanks, Chris.

 

And, regarding your 'times a wastin' comment, when was the last time you, or anyone else, received a prompt response from a governmental agency?

 

Yes, this thread has been carried out for more than a year. My fight with the VA has gone on even longer. Anyone who wasn't "serious" about this would have given up long ago.

 

Think, then speak -- in that order.

 

Take care.

[iChris]

Yes, this thread has been carried out for more than a year. My fight with the VA has gone on even longer. Anyone who wasn't "serious" about this would have given up long ago.

 

Take care.

 

If all else fails, follow their instructions! Get your PPL and move-on, before you loose-out completely.

 

"You cannot continue on the same path and arrive at a different destination. Make the choice to have your actions reflect your goals."

Edited April 21, 2011 by iChris