Increased ADSO Effect on Recruiting and Retention

[GHawk]

I'm sure it's been beat to death but I'm curious what everyone's thoughts are on the matter, both from a personal and academic standpoint. Do you think it will help retention? Hurt recruiting (reduced quantity/quality of applicants)? What could the Army have done instead of forcing pilots to stay in longer? Was it the regional airlines drawing pilots out of the Army or were they slowly being pushed out by deployments, additional duties, etc.?

The Army brass claimed they increased it to 10 years to establish parity with the USAF but left out the part where it takes twice as long and up to 10x as much money to train an Air Force pilot. Do you believe the parity argument has merit?

I'm a flight company commander in the ARNG, a regional airline pilot, and have been hired to fly heavies for an ANG unit (a 10 year ADSO I'm happy to sign on for). Beyond my personal curiosity, I'm trying to compile data for my master's program capstone. I've attached a link to my survey and any responses are greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time!

[zaurus]

I have a few questions for you but first, congratulation in crossing over to the Air Force side. What took you so long?

Why Army aviation in the first place? Did you initially feel Army aviation was a better fit in your career goals?

Are you dual rated in the Army. Which aircraft(s)?

Which AF aircraft will you be flying? My guess is either the C-130, or KC-135.

Will the AF 10yr ADSO take you over 20yr when including your Army time for retirement purposes.

There was a former Army Reserve UH-60 flight Warrant that flew as the Thunderbird slot pilot a few years ago.

[GHawk]

@zaurusThanks! Had a couple guys try to crossover before their ADSOs were up and got blackballed real hard in the battalion (which is the entire aviation community in my state) so I wanted to make sure I was clean before I took my shot.

I wanted to fly Black Hawks since the 4th grade and didn't really consider anything beyond that. Never expected to fly for a living until the airlines started giving rotary guys a chance. Only rated in the 60A/L/M, going to the C-130. Most definitely, will probably be looking at 25 years by the time I can even think about retiring.

Glad the AF has had some success with us refugees! I personally never want to fly anything I can't stand up and use a bathroom in ever again, but that's just me haha.

[zaurus]

I never considered myself as a refugee but I will wear that badge proudly. I assume you had over 10 years in the Army service before switching. That being the case, that will allow future Amy aviators with the new Army 10yr ADSO in crossing over to the Air Force as well. 

Was that an issue in being selected by the AF in having more than 10 years of Army service? AF SUPT is a little over 11 years including training. The two takes you over 20 years for retirement.

When it comes to military aviation, I consider Army aviation as the low hanging fruit. In reaching higher, the reward is sweeter.

But Army aviation is better than sitting behind a desk and possibly dying of boredom.

 

[SBuzzkill]

I stuck around the Army as long as I could without chasing a career.  I wasn’t interested in professional military education, OERs, promotions, etc.  That’s not what I was serving for.  I wanted to be the best aviator in the unit.  I worked hard on my additional duties but not to the detriment of my flying.  Eventually that becomes a dead end in Army Aviation.

The timing was right though.  I started to really appreciate the risks of the job and realized that my time was up.  I spent my entire 20s flying in the Army and my aggressiveness was quickly fading as I entered my 30s.  I looked at my growing family and the things I would be leaving behind.  As Cougar said in Top Gun, I was “holding on too tight” and had “lost the edge.”

Anyways, for two decades Army Aviation was the place to be if you wanted to go to war in a helicopter.  I was surrounded by Aviators of all backgrounds, many of them warriors who had an intimate understanding of the fight because they had been on the ground themselves.  If you had a desire to fight an aircraft close up and dirty there weren’t many places outside the army you were going to get the opportunity.

The community was transitioning when I left.  Back to preparing for the future.  That’s not a bad thing, but had I been 20 again looking at the Army I’m not sure it would be the place for me anymore.  

Edit:  I forgot to mention that the bonuses, ADSOs, airlines and compensation were all pretty irrelevant in my decision to leave.  I had an Apache transition and a promotion to W3 in my back pocket, but the road ahead just wasn’t for me.

Edited March 25, 2021 by SBuzzkill

[GHawk]

On 3/24/2021 at 4:00 PM, zaurus said:

I never considered myself as a refugee but I will wear that badge proudly. I assume you had over 10 years in the Army service before switching. That being the case, that will allow future Amy aviators with the new Army 10yr ADSO in crossing over to the Air Force as well. 

Was that an issue in being selected by the AF in having more than 10 years of Army service? AF SUPT is a little over 11 years including training. The two takes you over 20 years for retirement.

When it comes to military aviation, I consider Army aviation as the low hanging fruit. In reaching higher, the reward is sweeter.

But Army aviation is better than sitting behind a desk and possibly dying of boredom.

 

The 10 year ADSO will actually prevent all but the youngest street-to-seaters from making the jump, I graduated flight school right after turning 24 and the AF won't take you after 33 without a waiver. I enlisted at 17 and had five years in when I commissioned. This change will all but put an end to that option unless a pilot did Army FW and is considered a rated applicant. I wonder if that played into the decision at all, or if the convenient math was just a coincidence.

[GHawk]

7 hours ago, SBuzzkill said:

I stuck around the Army as long as I could without chasing a career.  I wasn’t interested in professional military education, OERs, promotions, etc.  That’s not what I was serving for.  I wanted to be the best aviator in the unit.  I worked hard on my additional duties but not to the detriment of my flying.  Eventually that becomes a dead end in Army Aviation.

The timing was right though.  I started to really appreciate the risks of the job and realized that my time was up.  I spent my entire 20s flying in the Army and my aggressiveness was quickly fading as I entered my 30s.  I looked at my growing family and the things I would be leaving behind.  As Cougar said in Top Gun, I was “holding on too tight” and had “lost the edge.”

Anyways, for two decades Army Aviation was the place to be if you wanted to go to war in a helicopter.  I was surrounded by Aviators of all backgrounds, many of them warriors who had an intimate understanding of the fight because they had been on the ground themselves.  If you had a desire to fight an aircraft close up and dirty there weren’t many places outside the army you were going to get the opportunity.

The community was transitioning when I left.  Back to preparing for the future.  That’s not a bad thing, but had I been 20 again looking at the Army I’m not sure it would be the place for me anymore.  

Edit:  I forgot to mention that the bonuses, ADSOs, airlines and compensation were all pretty irrelevant in my decision to leave.  I had an Apache transition and a promotion to W3 in my back pocket, but the road ahead just wasn’t for me.

Totally agree, I'm not willing to take the risks that I was a few years ago after losing people I know to crashes that could've easily happened to me. We'll be trying for kids soon and I have no desire to miss an entire year of their lives for another deployment or two. I'm grateful for the experience, the opportunities, and the friends I've made along the way, but I'm happy that my time with the Army seems to be nearing an end.

[flanker]

Oh man I want to go on such a rant right now. 

[zaurus]

GHawk

In the back of my mind, I was hoping the AF would be able in taking former Flight Warrants (FW) with the new 10yr ADSO if they wish to Jump over. Obviously,  that's not the case unless enlisting for WOFT at the age of 20 or less. For those that qualify and are chosen, they must serve at least 23 years before retirement and have their 4yr degree.

Looks like the 10yr ADSO will work wonders for the Army since most (FW) are prior enlisted.

1) Less bonus money offered for prior enlisted FW.

2) Retention should increase for the prior enlisted FW regarding retirement.

3) The other services Commissioning pilot training programs are OFF the table including the USCG. Unless enlisted before 20 years old. No more former FW Thunderbird pilots

PS: In the history of the AF, they never recognized Army fixed wing training. And the AF does have C-12s.