Training/employment Contract

PIGBIRD · December 30, 2005

Any one out there know a good lawer who deals in Aviation law. My former employer is suing me over a training contract that I signed.

rotoflightmaniac1 · December 31, 2005

Any one out there know a good lawer who deals in Aviation law. My former employer is suing me over a training contract that I signed.

Hey PIGBIRD,

Care to share what is going on with us "soon to be pilots" I'd like to know what to avoid, if you can't share, thanks anyway,

Jake

avbug · December 31, 2005

Training contracts are often necessary because pilots often take the training offered by an employer and then don't stick around. The employer doesn't get his or her money out of the pilot.

Why did you break the contract?

delorean · December 31, 2005

Cooling & Herbers: www.coolinglaw.com

Jackson & Wade: www.jetlaw.com

Both are in Kansas City, MO and are very reputable firms. You may not need an aviation lawyer, since you're not fighting the FAA in administrative law.

I've heard that training contracts are very hard to enforce. My company doesn't have one because of that. I've heard that all you have to do is prove that they didn't live up to their employment promises (hours, pay, whatever) and you're scott free. You might have better luck posting something out on justhelicopters about this. There are lot more PHI, Airlog, etc guys out there that have signed those contracts.

PIGBIRD · December 31, 2005

I told after having been employed for 5 months that I was required to attend a factory course for Insurance purposes and that they wanted me to sign a contract that if I quit or they fired me I was liable for the whole amount. I stated that Idid not want to sign the contract but the day before I was to leave I was told that if I did not sign the contract I did not have a job. I signed the contract thinking things would work out but after returning from the school things got much worse. I was told I had to work overtime which amounted to about 5 hrs a week for free, along with many other things. 6 months after attending the school I was fired for not accepting some of these conditions. About 2 weeks after I was terminated I was served with papers stating that I was being sued for breech of contract.

nbit · December 31, 2005

That litigation does not require an aviation attorney. That is the type of thing that can happen between any employer or employee. Also, state to state, I think the laws vary. I think you are better off finding a reputable attorney in the state you were employed in. You may pay a premium for an attorney specializing in aviation law, and really this contract is a type of promissary note that a lot of non-aviation employers will use.

I agree with the statement above... e.g. - If you can find any obligations your employer didn't keep, it is generally easy to get out of in most states. It varies state to state though. I worked for a large company that had a $14,000 prorated three-year training promissary note, and checked the court records in my state out of curiousity. I found that the suits were usually dropped by the company or won by the defendant in most those cases...

To put your mind at ease - You may want to search your states's online court records if they provide them. Some states have case determinations online that you can search...

My disclaimer is I'm not a lawyer... Just my observation from life experiences...

Flying Pig · January 1, 2006

Some departments try doing that in Law Enforcement.....we send you to the academy, you owe us five years.....kinda thing....contract and all. LAPD was good for that. To this day nobody has paid a dime. Thing is, it makes you an indentured servant which is illegal. You'd want a Labor rights attorney, not an aviation attorney.

gmsemel · January 1, 2006

Go talk to a lawyer, these guys done have a leg to stand on. One letter from your Lawyer will be about all it will take. Some advise, when you are talking to somebody about employment or if you don't sign you don't have a job, have a little recording device in your pocket. This way it don't becomes a he said she said type of deal. Personally I would tell them to go get bent, but have your lawyer do it.

HH60Pilot · January 12, 2006

I thought slavery was prohibited in the U.S. in 1860's.. Is this PIGBIRDs situation a common examble of freedom and prosperity that George (living in a big house in Washington) is marketing for the whole world? Ok maybe that was too much but seriously: Don't know anything about U.S. laws but is it even legal to force people to do overtime???

PIGBIRD, i hope that everything will "end up" your way. Best of luck, and whatever happens, don't pay anything to that kind of as**oles!

Edit: I almost forgot: Happy and successful new year for every one!!

Finn,

An employment contract is not slavery, there a plenty of employers in the world (not just the US) that require contracts from their employees if the employer pays for specific training for the employee. If the prospective employee wants the position bad enough, they sign the contract obligating them to a specific period of time to be employed by the company paying for the training. This is done to protect the employers financially. Otherwise, what is to keep the employee from quitting the day after returning from the factory course if all he or she really wanted was to find a way to get someone else to pay for the training. In fact, all branches of the military in the US require a graduate of flight training to serve a minimum number of years in the military as a way to help defray the cost of the flight training. If it is legal for the military to do it, why is it bad juju for a civilian employer to expect the same courtesy of an employee? I did 23 years in the military and I only know of one pilot that was released prior to meeting his minimum obligation, and I think the Air Force was best off without him.

As for your question about forcing people to do overtime, those laws vary by state, but by-and-large the answer is 'Yes'. Depending on how your job is classified, you may not qualify for overtime pay no matter how many hours you work in a week. In some states, even if you are an hourly employee, you can be required to work overtime under certain circumstances.

While I am not a lawyer, I did spend time attending law school and know that if the contract is written within specific parameters, it will be legal and binding. Plus, I don't recall seeing where PIGBIRD said someone put a gun to his head and forced him to sign the contract. I'm not for someone sticking around and working in an unpleasant situation, but he did sign it of his own free will. If PIGBIRD left because it was a poor work environment, he may have a legal leg to stand on if it would qualify as a hostile work environment.

Just my two-cents.

Doug