Type Rating Question(s)

[PaveHawk]

Hello, Does anyone here know the details regarding helicopter type ratings? I read the the CFRs regarding weight categories etc but...how does one go about getting a type rating on their certificate? For example, let's say you fly the H-60 or UH-1. Are you then eligible for a type rating on the civilian version S-70 or Bell 210 and how would you go about getting the type rating? Do you have to actually fly in that aircraft with an examiner? I will call up the FSDO but thought I would post this question here first. Thanks in advance!

[gmsemel]

Well in the old days they use to issue type ratings for the helicopter you took your ATP ride in. The FAA did away with that some years go. Now to your question. The FAA issues a type rating for any aircraft that has a gross weight of 12,500 lbs or more or is a turbo jet powered aircraft, ie lears and citations and such. Now when you get ready to leave the army, you want to get all your army certifications converted to an FAA certificates and ratings before you leave. So if you been flying UH-60, you may just get an S-70 type for the asking. Then again you maybe not. The thing is there not a whole lot of Civil UH-60/ S-70's around. I know of only 4. If you should get a job flying one based on UH-60 time you have, they will type you when you take a check ride. Call the FSDO they should be able to tell you directly what would be needed and what documents form the army you will need to provide. Good question, I wish I could be more help full, since I never had to deal with type rating issues in my helicopter flying.

[Gomer Pylot]

True, you only get typed in heavy aircraft now ( > 12,500 lb). There are still pilots around with 206 type ratings on their licenses, but it's no longer done. If you get a 135 checkride in a heavy aircraft, you *may* get a type rating, but not necessarily. If it's a PIC checkride, then you will get it, because it's required for acting as PIC. If it's a SIC ride, you may or may not get the type rating, depending on the examiner and the company, because a type raging is not required to act as SIC. It doesn't have to be an FAA person who gives the checkride, it can be a designated examiner who is likely employed by the company operating the helicopter.

[lockedcj7]

I thought you had to get a type rating in Robinsons but I just looked at my license and it doesn't say anything about it. I got virtually all of my training in them and have the appropriate endorsements but no type rating.

[Gerhardt]

SFAR 73 isn't about type ratings, but being signed off by a CFI for a 22 or 44. It requires initial training plus an annual lesson on low G pushovers, mast bumping, etc. as well as making sure you remember how to fly one.

[troops23]

Yea, from what everyone has already said with regards to the 12,5 GTOW, there are no type ratings in the States. If you flew in Canada or had a Canadian license, then you'd have to get a type rating for every type of helicopter you'll be flying. But that's just flying 10 hrs with an instructor and going through all the emergencies and learning the systems.

[joker]

lockedcj7,

 

As has been said before, the FAA does not issue type ratings for aircraft below a MTOW of 12,500lbs.

 

The FAR that deals with Type Ratings is 61.31

 

(a) Type ratings required. A person who acts as a pilot in command of any of the following aircraft must hold a type rating for that aircraft:

(1) Large aircraft (except lighter-than-air).

(2) Turbojet-powered airplanes.

(3) Other aircraft specified by the Administrator through aircraft type certificate procedures

 

where a 'large aircraft' is defined in FAR1.1 as 'aircraft of more than 12,500 pounds, maximum certificated takeoff weight' and a 'type' is 'a specific make and basic model of aircraft, including modifications thereto that do not change its handling or flight characteristics. Examples include: DC-7, 1049, and F-27'.

 

The extra training required for the Robinson range of helicopters is not considered a 'type rating' in the truest sense of the term. However, many people will say that the R22/R44 require a 'type rating' in so far as they require additional training before you can fly them. (61.31(h)) This is the root of your confusion.

 

The SFAR73-1 is an addition to the CFRs which carry the same legal status as the FARs.

 

The first line of the SFAR says 'The requirements stated in this SFAR are in addition to the current requirements of part 61.

 

In accordance to 6131(h), the SFAR73-1 stipulates additional 'Required training, aeronautical experience, endorsements, and flight review standards' for these aircraft.

 

Just a side note, I have had issues with other instructors about the endorsements required. I have received students who had all the SFAR endorsements, but were lacking the basic part 61 endorsements, particularly the 61.87(f) 'solo' endorsement. Remember SFAR71-1(1).

 

R22 instructors remember, SFAR73 signoff or not, for all aircraft you fly (12,500lbs or not) you require the 61.31(d)(3) endorsement.

 

61.31(d)(3) Have received training required by this part that is appropriate to the aircraft category, class, and type rating (if a class or type rating is required) for the aircraft to be flown, and have received the required endorsements from an instructor who is authorized to provide the required endorsements for solo flight in that aircraft.

 

So in answer to the original question, you won't get any 'type rating' for aircraft under 12,500lbs. R22/R44 SFAR signoffs are not type ratings (but are often considered the same as..)

 

 

Pavehawk,

 

The military training you received will count towards the required training as per 61.41 and 61.73.

 

There are special rules for military conversions. These are held in 61.73

 

The time you have logged as PIC in the military does count towards the time required, as you can log it in accordance with 61.51(e)(1)(iii) even though you have no civilian type rating.

 

Thus, if you have over 10 hours logged as PIC in the military, then you can apply for a civilian , commercial certificate, category and class rating, instrument rating and type rating under the authority of 61.73(a)(1-4).

 

(a) General. Except for a rated military pilot or former rated military pilot who has been removed from flying status for lack of proficiency, or because of disciplinary action involving aircraft operations, a rated military pilot or former rated military pilot who meets the applicable requirements of this section may apply, on the basis of his or her military training, for:

(1) A commercial pilot certificate;

(2) An aircraft rating in the category and class of aircraft for which that military pilot is qualified;

(3) An instrument rating with the appropriate aircraft rating for which that military pilot is qualified; or

(4) A type rating, if appropriate.

 

If you were in active flying status within the preceding 12 months then you have to pass a knowledge test, and show documentation which states your active status.

 

If you were not in active flying status, then you have to do the knowledge test and show documentation proving that you once 'were' a military pilot!

 

In either case, if you can prove you had a military checkride and have logged 10 hours within the preceding 12 months, then the FAA will give you your Type Rating straight away. If not, then you need to do a civilian checkride, which requires a minimum of 3 hours of training and 60-day endorsement from a civilian instructor.

 

Hope this helps...read 61.73 yourself and it might be clearer!!!

 

Joker

[lockedcj7]

lockedcj7,

 

 

The extra training required for the Robinson range of helicopters is not considered a 'type rating' in the truest sense of the term. However, many people will say that the R22/R44 require a 'type rating' in so far as they require additional training before you can fly them. (61.31(h)) This is the root of your confusion.

 

 

Hope this helps...read 61.73 yourself and it might be clearer!!![/color]

 

Joker

 

I wasn't confused about it. My original post wasn't very clear. I had an instructor who said, "Robinsons are the only helicopter under 12,500 lbs MGW that require a type rating." What he said turned out to not be true in the strictest sense of the word. I have read the regs and I know what SFAR 73 says. I have also been to the Robinson course and I have all of the appropriate endorsements.

[justfly]

If you flew in Canada or had a Canadian license, then you'd have to get a type rating for every type of helicopter you'll be flying.

True, per CAR 421.40(2)(b )

421.40 -

Blanket and Individual Type Ratings

- Where an applicant has met the applicable requirements for issuance, the following Permits and Licences may be endorsed with the indicated Type Ratings:

(2)

Individual Type Ratings

- An individual aircraft type rating is issued for aircraft not included in a blanket type rating. It is indicated by the appropriate aircraft type designator from Appendix A found at the end of this Subpart, endorsed on a permit or licence as follows:

(b )

Helicopters

- Each type of helicopter

But that's just flying 10 hrs with an instructor and going through all the emergencies and learning the systems.

The way I read 421.40(3)(g) there is no specific hours requirement. I know some give type ratings after 5 hrs dual in type, but I don't know a regulatory requirement for that.

(3)

Individual Type Rating Requirements

(g)

Helicopter - One Pilot

- Within the 12 months preceding the application for the rating, an applicant for an individual aircraft type rating for a helicopter with a minimum flight crew requirement of one pilot shall have successfully completed:

(i) a flight test, on the helicopter type, for the issue of a Private or Commercial Pilot Licence - Helicopter; or

(ii) a Pilot Proficiency Check on the helicopter type; or

(iii) a qualifying flight under the supervision of a person qualified in accordance with CAR 425.21(7)(b ).

[HH60Pilot]

Hello, Does anyone here know the details regarding helicopter type ratings? I read the the CFRs regarding weight categories etc but...how does one go about getting a type rating on their certificate? For example, let's say you fly the H-60 or UH-1. Are you then eligible for a type rating on the civilian version S-70 or Bell 210 and how would you go about getting the type rating? Do you have to actually fly in that aircraft with an examiner? I will call up the FSDO but thought I would post this question here first. Thanks in advance!

 

Pave,

 

Make sure you do the military competency test while you are still in (I think you actually have up to one year from the time you get out). It's a written test that will get you a commercial and instrument ticket with a passing score. I checked at one time about getting a type rating for the S70 based on my time flying the PaveHawk and was told that the S70 was never type certified by the FAA, therefore, no type rating is available. That was several years back, so that may have changed. A type rating is for aircraft with a max gross weight of over 12,500 pounds, so I think that the Huey is going to be out of there (9,500 max weight if I remember right for the H model).

 

Anyway, that's my two-cents on the subject.

 

Doug

 

Retired Jolly Green Giant and PaveHawk driver from the 129th RQS (ARRS).