65 Hours and haven't solo'd!

[rotor91]

ALL RIGHT PILOTS....here's the scenario:

 

My bestfriend started taking lessons 8 months ago, thereabouts! He's almost 42, doesn't want to go past a commercial, infact he'll probably stop at PPL. Anyways, he started flying and got about 10-20 hours in. He was told to get his medical. He got into a major car accident 5 years ago, F'd him up pretty good. So the FAA holds his medical for 2-3 months, while they investigate. He stops flying because of this. His orig. CFI goes and works for LA City Fire, (he finally gets his medical)he switches to a young CFI(who's only looking at the 1000 hour mark at the end of the tunnel). This young CFI never solo's him, says he's not ready, etc.. On more than one occasion this CFI YELLS at him, and it wasn't during an auto, or a maneuver that was putting them in danger. I told my buddy to switch CFI's, which he finally did. The female CFI was let go, after 3 hours of dual with my buddy(for reason's I do not know, and he liked the way she taught). He even went up with the owner(DPE), and he said that he was ready to solo, but he needed to fly more consitantly, because he would probably solo in the next 2 hours.

 

They mainly teach in the 300CB, and not the R-22. Rarely did any CFI's want to teach in the R-22 or qualified to do so. Meanwhile, he's running out of cash. He would not fly for weeks, then fly once or twice, etc.. He just went up with yet ANOTHER CFI, and he said he should have solo'd by now.......no Sh*t Sherlock! This other CFI said that he should also do a debreifing too with him. He said he had a problem with the debrief, the CFI wants him to come into the school at $55/hr and talk about the flight(I told him that its not 1-2 hours of debrief). A couple of things with that is: 1) I told him he needs to know his numbers(ie: speed/MP on takeoff, crosswind, downwind, base, final, altiudes for those, the list is long. 2) He thinks that once he took his written(which he passed), and his written at the school, that's all he needs. I told him he's wrong, that you need to commit this ALL to memory, live it, read it, breath it, etc.. 3) If he wants to go up once a week for the rest of his life, and just fly around, then so BE IT. BUT if wants to get his PPL, then he needs to make more of a committment. 4) If you've already solo'd, and you just did a dual flight. Then while your sitting doing your cool down, ask the CFI how you did, what went wrong, what was good, etc.. Or, if your the CFI, then tell he/she what they did right, wrong, improve on, etc.(that's a short and to the point debrief).

 

I know he needs to stay committed, either take out a loan, and go full bore, or fly at least once a week! So NOW, he tells me he's booked a ticket for mid September to Hawaii, to finish up his PPL!! I told him he hasn't solo'd yet, and he needs min. of 10 hours solo, plus at least 20 dual. He thinks he can do it in 21 days, and $8K. I'm not the type of person to blow sunshine up your A**, so I flat out told him that he's making a huge mistake! To at least solo FIRST, get some solo hours, then MAYBE go and finish up in Hawaii. BUT I also told him to switch schools.

 

The place I fly out of, you do the training at the airport, less than .2 and your on first pattern circuit. Where the school he flys out of now, your blow'n up to .4 each way to and from the practice area! I told him to go down and talk to the chief pilot, and see what he says at my school. I told him to bring his logbook, and pick the CP brain.

 

The school knows if your not 100% committed, but they'll take your money each and every time! Which I think is wrong, BUT if the student is dumb enough to do that, then I guess it's just doing business for the school.

 

He wants me to get hurry up and get my CFI so I can teach him. BUT I honestly think I'll push him too hard. Maybe be hard A** on him, because he's my bestfriend. I know he's got it in him, he just needs to see that!

 

I don't want to give names of the schools, because I don't want to slam the school. That's not my point. I want to hear from all of you, because I want my buddy to know the opinion of fellow pilots.

 

Goldy & Brushfire know where I fly out of, but I'd appreciate the confidentialality!

 

Sorry for the novel! Thanks in advance-

Rob

R91

[West Coaster]

I wouldn't go into business with a friend, and sure as hell wouldn't teach one to fly. It's a total conflict of interests.

 

As an instructor, don't touch him with a 10 foot pole. Seriously.

[jehh]

It could well be the school, sometimes students do fall between the cracks...

 

That being said, I have seen more than one student who caused their own problems. Flying once a week doesn't promote much progress, even worse when the student takes time off from flying, then has to switch instructors, etc.

 

I know people who have flown with 8 different CFIs and taken 120+ hours to get their private, and that is not always the school's fault. Your example of his not wanting to memorize performance and limitations information for the aircraft, as well as emergency procedures, is a red flag in my opinion.

 

That being said, it could well be a school that isn't paying attention, I would for sure have him looked at by another school, and go from there.

[flingwing206]

Have your friend try another school. I have no problem with the 65 hours, but it sounds like a comedy of errors - time to pull the plug and move on to a more organized outfit

[brushfire21]

Rotor91,

 

I can't talk much, but one of the posters did make a good point about flying once a week. Your friends idea of diving into it may not be so far off the mark.

 

I had the option of doing it part time, and I opted to do it in phases, but commit 100% of my time during those phases to the flying and making the most of the money and time. My .005cents worth.

 

PS, was this your buddy that I met at the copter show? I don't remember offhand which school he was attending, but I don't think it matters much at this point in the game. A few came to mind that I visited afew months ago, and I think it was one of them as I recall. If its the one I am thinking, that totally blows my mind as that school is supposed to be top notch.

[zcat]

This brings up a question I've had. What's everyone's opinion on the minimum one should fly in order to keep fresh and making progress? Will once a week, for a couple hours a shot, keep you in the game? Twice a week? I'd really like to hear from you current and former part-timers.

 

I had the option of doing it part time, and I opted to do it in phases, but commit 100% of my time during those phases to the flying and making the most of the money and time.

Brushfire, can you elaborate a bit on this? How long were your phases, how far apart were they, etc.?

 

Thanks,

zombieCat

[Goldy]

Rob- flying to Hawaii is SUCH a mistake. I can relate to this story, I never got to fly more than 2 or 3 times a month, and yeah, its a bitch learning that way...it definitely takes longer in the end.

 

You know where I fly, I would have him stop by and do an hour in the R22..its cheaper and you have to learn to fly one sooner or later. Have him call or email me if he wants to swing by some time.

 

As far as the practice area, yes we all need to practice the auto's out in the boonies but you are flying the whole time, and flying in a large airport Class D/C space is good experience as well.

 

As far as solo, I speak from experience, he is probably at a point where he is not going to improve much further without some time on his own.

 

ZCAT- Many say that twice a week is optimum. Remember you have a lot of studying/learning/testing to do as well as flying. I would say its better to fly twice at an hour each, rather than one 2 hour flight per week. With time to debrief, think about what you did wrong, or would do different the next time and then go fly.

Where I fly, most flights are about 1.5 due to time needed to get to a practice area.

 

Goldy

[Vaqueroaero]

It's hard to make a judgement call on this, without knowing the guy or how he flies. However having read through it, it would appear that to a certain degree it is a comdy of errors.

 

It is important to remember that there are people out there who are not cut out for flying helicopters. It doesn't matter how much they fly, or how much dual they receive they don't have the correlative ability to be able to fly safely.

 

I have had a few students that I have sat down and told that they should seriously consider giving it up and putting the money to better use. Some listen, some don't. The ones that don't are very tough cases. I can understand completely not being allowed to solo if you do not fly in a consistent manner. I had one lady that would one day fly great and the next lesson couldn't get it off the ground without major input from me. You simply cannot and do not solo someone until they are able to fly the aircraft from start to shutdown and do all the maneuvers with little or no input from the instructor. I know off people that have had over 100 hours and still not soloed. Alot of this was down to the instructors focusing more on their logbooks than anything else. That to me is inexcusable.

 

As for flying at the start of training I always used to recommend at least once a week and the more time they get in the aircraft and as their confidence and experience grows they can ease off.

 

It is also important to remember that by changing schools he is going to have to fly a few hours familiarisation flights before being cut loose. It is always hard picking up students that have changed schools for whatever reason.

 

As far as you flying with him - I'd be very cautious about that. As others have said, be careful mixing business with pleasure.

[rotor91]

Thanks guys for the input, I was going to print this forum subject out, and give it to him. I know I wouldn't teach him, it is a conflict of interest. I love him like a brother, and I wouldn't want to destroy ANY of that! He does listen to me, but maybe from OTHER pilots, he'll listen better!

 

Brushfire, YES, he's the guy from Vertical Challenge!

 

Keep up the on this subject, the more the merrier!

 

Cheers-

R91

[brushfire21]

R91,

 

I wish him the best of luck, and I'm sure he will find his niche and make it through this if he really wants this, which it sounds like he does. He is far ahead of me at this point, so maybe he can pass some advice to us newbies.