Color Vision Problem

[Rick_Michael]

Here's my situation. I spend the last year and half saving the appropriate amount of money to train for Helicopter training. I'm not a rich guy, but I think this would be money well spent...if I could make it a career.

 

The problem is I'm color deficient. I've went to specialists, and they've determined I have a problem with light greens ie I sometimes confuse them with grays. Now obviously this will not help when I have to take the test by the medical examiner. I will most definitely fail that test. No doubt. I've taken the alternatives, and I'm borderline on them. I could perhaps pass them.

 

I'm familiar with the whole system. SODA would be my last option, and it's said that 90% of the people that take it, pass. Sounds fairly good. Now I've been asking around to see if I can get a demonstration of the signal lights, so that I know if I can pass (if all else fail), and it's worth my time/stress to make an investment into flying. I really want to make this my career, but I don't want to invest thousands into something I can't do.

 

So I'm desperate. I just want that extra validation...by seeing the signal lights. It's not that I haven't tried, either; as I've been asking all the the local schools if they could help me with that, and they seem to continuely ignore me...incredibly unproffessional, I know. I've even had a control tower promise to show me the lights, and they changed their mind when I arrived. *shrug*

 

Is there 'want ads' on this site?

 

I'm looking to get someone whom can get a signal light demonstration for me and/or get me pictures of each color (red, green, white) from the Control tower...from the generally appropriate distance. I'm in the Bay Area (California), and I'm willing to pay 100-200 (depending on what's offered) to validate whether I can pass the SODA test. This is my only bump in the road, but it makes all the difference. I'm a bit frustrated at how difficult this is to get. Please help me out on this one.

[gft]

If you can't find a obliging tower crew or light gun to borrow try this website:

 

http://www.flightlight.com/airportlighting/4.8/4.8.html

 

Don't panic yet-

My fixed wing instructor was color blind-

He did the stand on the ground and look at the light gun in the tower test-

He flies for an airline now-

 

Worse comes to worse ya got a 50/50 chance of passing-

[Witch]

My brother has his license and he's a bit colorblind, can't see the numbers in the dots. He just can't fly at night.

 

Go get your exam and discuss with the doctor your concern. I bet you'll be able to distinguish between red and green rather well. Just remember, red is a little darker.

 

Later

[grabmeier]

Rick - As a pilot who also has a color deficiency, trust what I am about to say...

 

 

If your airport has a tower, contact tower prior to taxiing to active and request a light gun demonstration. If your control tower is too busy, fly to a less busy airport and do the same thing. Either way GET THAT DEMONSTRATION DONE! Have someone who can distinguish red, green, and white without any problems with you when you do this. If you can come even close to getting the colors right, you're setting pretty good for the SODA.

 

I would request a light gun demo while on the ramp and one in the pattern.

 

I was very worried about having to take the SODA. But when it came time to do it, It was easier than picking the lights out from the tower.

 

My advice: Get it over with and take the SODA. If you can't see the colors of the light gun, you won't be able to anywhere else.

 

If you have any other questions/concerns please PM me.

 

Eric

[FLCFI]

You will def pass the light gun test. If you dont, however, you will not be able to fly at night in which case its not worth it to pursue a career in aviation. I took the test 5 years ago and passed with no problem...Go for it

 

good luck

 

KP

[Superman]

COLOR TESTS: HOW TO REMOVE YOUR NIGHT FLYING RESTRICTION

Ever found yourself debating whether you were seeing a green six or eight on the color vision test during your FAA medical exam? If you answered wrong, your aviation medical examiner (AME) probably issued a night flying restriction on your medical. But you can have that restriction removed. The color vision tests that most AMEs use are designed to detect the slightest color vision deficiency. You can visit your optometrist to take certain tests that detect varying degrees of color vision deficiency. If you pass those tests, your optometrist can send the results to the FAA, which will issue you a letter of evidence removing the restriction. You also can take a color signal light test at an airport. AOPA recommends this test be a last resort because you can only take it twice. If you fail both times, the FAA may not allow you to take other color vision tests to remove the restriction. See AOPA's Vision—Color Restriction Removal Web page for detailed descriptions of these tests.

 

Information from the AOPA newsletter, Maybe something here to help answer some of your questions.

 

 

Fly Safe

Clark

[Witch]

Here's the link:

http://www.aopa.org/members/pic/medical/ce...sion/color.html

 

And if the link doesn't work, here's the article:

 

AOPA's Pilot Information Center

Vision—Color Restriction Removal

 

The newly revised standards in Part 67 specify that applicants for all classes of medical certification have "the ability to perceive those colors necessary for the safe performance of airman duties."

 

If the airman does not pass the color vision test administered in the aviation medical examiner's office at the time of the FAA physical examination, the following options are available to remove the restrictions from the medical certificate:

 

The best option for many pilots is to pass one of the FAA-approved alternative pseudoisochromatic tests. View this page for information on the optional tests and requirements for satisfactory completion based upon the class of medical applied for. (Important note: The FAA no longer accepts The Farnsworth Lantern D15.) You can see the eye care specialist of your choice for the tests. It may take a few phone calls to locate the test you want to take. Ask the doctor to report the type of test and the results on office letterhead. Make a copy of the letter for your records and send the results to the FAA.

 

You will be issued an amended certificate without the night flight/color signal restriction. Accompanying the amended certificate will be a "letter of evidence" citing your successful completion of the color vision test. Keep that letter for future reference.

 

Some pilots may instead prefer to take the color signal light test at an FAA air traffic control tower. Successfully passing this test will also remove the night flying /color signal control restriction, but with an important change.

 

FAA medical certification policy has now eliminated the need for a waiver, or Statement of Demonstrated Ability (SODA) to be issued after the satisfactory completion of the signal light test. So, if you opt for the light signal test, the FAA will now issue you an unrestricted medical and the letter of evidence, but without the separate waiver certificate. Your agency medical file will still show a pathology code for color vision deficiency. For that reason, if you plan to fly for the airlines, it is still a good idea to try the first option before attempting the signal light test.

 

Note: The color signal test can be taken only twice. If you fail the color signal light test, the FAA may not allow you to take one of the other alternative tests for removal of the night flight restriction. Try the other alternative color plate test first!

 

To be prepared for the color signal light test, we suggest you visit the airport and ask the tower specialist to flash the color signals in your direction. Have someone with you who has "normal" color vision to confirm that you correctly identify the colors. The FAA Inspector's Handbook also allows the inspector to ask you to demonstrate the ability to read aeronautical charts, including colored airspace and ground terrain designations most commonly found on sectional charts. You may or may not be asked to do this in addition to the light signal test.

 

Call the Aeromedical Certification Division in Oklahoma City and request an authorization for the color signal light test. Indicate the FAA Flight Standards District Office you intend to visit. The FAA will issue an authorization letter to you and copy it to the FSDO. After receiving the letter, which is valid for 90 days, schedule the test with the FSDO. Avoid midday tests when the sun is directly overhead. Late afternoon or cloudy days are the best conditions to view the light signals. Some facilities will accommodate an after-hours appointment if you ask.

 

The Flight Standards inspector should forward the results to the FAA Aeromedical Certification Division, however, you may want to call the FAA yourself to make sure that occurs.

 

When you have demonstrated that you meet the color vision standards, you may upgrade your medical to a higher class without having to retake the tests.

 

I noticed this also, hope it helps

 

Introduction to the Airman Medical Certification Process —How/Where to Submit to FAA

 

If you have not previously applied for a medical certificate, make copies of all medical records and retain one set for yourself. Provide a separate set to your aviation medical examiner at the time of your FAA physical examination.

 

If you don't hold a current medical certificate, or your FAA medical application (Form 8500-8 that you complete at the time of your regular FAA physical examination) has expired, you should talk with your aviation medical examiner or AOPA medical services before you apply for a new medical. The FAA will no longer review medical records unless there is a current medical application on file.

 

Be sure to have all the necessary records with you when you see the medical examiner for an FAA physical exam. Your name, social security #, or date of birth (If FAA has assigned you a PI#, use this instead) should be on each page of the records—computer labels are O.K.

 

If you choose to send the records to the FAA yourself, do not send them until after your FAA exam. Use express courier service, either overnight or 2-3 day delivery. Double-check that you have all the required information. If anything is missing, it will take longer for the FAA to issue your medical.

 

Make a copy of all records for your own files, and submit everything together, as a single packet. It's best to send the records yourself, rather than rely on your doctor's office staff to submit for you. Send to:

 

Aerospace Medical Certification Division (AAM-300)

FAA Civil Aerospace Medical Institute

6700 South MacArthur Blvd.

Oklahoma City, OK 73169

FAA Telephone: 1-800-350-5286, 405-954-4821

 

(If your submission is for Medical Appeals Department, be sure to plainly mark this on the Airbill, mailing label or envelope).

 

If your submission is 20 pages or less, and contains no tracings (i.e. ecg, Holter monitor, exercise stress test) you may call the AOPA medical department (1-800-872-2672) for the appropriate FAA fax number.

Edited November 24, 2006 by Witch

[Rick_Michael]

If you can't find a obliging tower crew or light gun to borrow try this website:

 

http://www.flightlight.com/airportlighting/4.8/4.8.html

 

You think I can actually buy one of those?

 

I really almost feel like doing that. It's frustrating to be denied help.

Don't panic yet-

My fixed wing instructor was color blind-

He did the stand on the ground and look at the light gun in the tower test-

He flies for an airline now-

 

Worse comes to worse ya got a 50/50 chance of passing-

 

There's a lot of us. More in Europe, though...they're really strict there.

 

I believe I'll pass, I'm just a bit anxious.

[Rick_Michael]

Rick - As a pilot who also has a color deficiency, trust what I am about to say...

If your airport has a tower, contact tower prior to taxiing to active and request a light gun demonstration. If your control tower is too busy, fly to a less busy airport and do the same thing. Either way GET THAT DEMONSTRATION DONE! Have someone who can distinguish red, green, and white without any problems with you when you do this. If you can come even close to getting the colors right, you're setting pretty good for the SODA.

 

I actually went to the least busy airport within my area (I believe)...San Carlos.. SQL. The airport tower was open, but there was absolutely no flights that day. I requested a demonstration prior to that specific date...for their convience. They changed their mind when I came.

 

I've only done a lot trial flights...checking-out various schools. I'm not really accumulating any hours. I would, if I could find a trainer that would help me with that.

 

I would request a light gun demo while on the ramp and one in the pattern.

 

Were you in a heli when you requested your demonstration? I'm trying to figure out whether I should just try calling all control towers throughout california (to see if they can do a demostration) or just starting a few hours, and hope they'll give me a demonstration.

 

For some reason I think the laters more plausible. The schools around here are really not to my likening, though. They'd have to be very temporary. Silver state (which I hear is bad), and another one which cancels all the time.

 

I was very worried about having to take the SODA. But when it came time to do it, It was easier than picking the lights out from the tower.

 

Your soda test did consist of picking lights from the tower, didn't it?

 

Curious: how many of the pseudoisochromatic did you get wrong out of the 9? I believe I only got three right.

 

 

If you have any other questions/concerns please PM me.

 

I pm'd you a few questions. I see your sort of a newbie on this forum as well....hopefully you peek back-in.

 

Thanks for sharing your rather close views to the circumstance.

[grabmeier]

I actually went to the least busy airport within my area (I believe)...San Carlos.. SQL. The airport tower was open, but there was absolutely no flights that day. I requested a demonstration prior to that specific date...for their convience. They changed their mind when I came.

 

That's too bad that your tower is not willing to help you out. Kinda rude in my opinion considering it's just a matter of aiming and shooting...

 

I've only done a lot trial flights...checking-out various schools. I'm not really accumulating any hours. I would, if I could find a trainer that would help me with that.

Were you in a heli when you requested your demonstration? I'm trying to figure out whether I should just try calling all control towers throughout california (to see if they can do a demostration) or just starting a few hours, and hope they'll give me a demonstration.

 

I'm actually rated in airplanes. You don't have to be in an aircraft for them to demonstrate to you what the lights from the gun look like. Just have a hand-held and go out on the ramp, tell them where you are and request a demonstration... If the airport is dead like you say it is, there is absolutely no reason why they wouldn't help you out with this. I would recommend that you try to distinguish the colors both on the ramp and in the landing pattern to give you both perspectives.

 

For some reason I think the laters more plausible. The schools around here are really not to my likening, though. They'd have to be very temporary. Silver state (which I hear is bad), and another one which cancels all the time.

Your soda test did consist of picking lights from the tower, didn't it?

 

I took my SODA in Minneapolis, MN. They used to require that you take the test from the control tower but I guess that's changed. They shined the light gun at me from the third floor of their building. I had to distinguish the colors from two designated spots that were "X" amount of yards/feet away. It was a clear, bright day and I had absolutely no problems doing the test.

 

Curious: how many of the pseudoisochromatic did you get wrong out of the 9? I believe I only got three right.

 

I didn't take the pseudoisochromatic test... I tried to find a farnsworth lantern but to no avail. I believe if you just take the test, you will pass. If you can't tell the colors apart from taking the SODA, maybe you shouldn't be flying at night or by color signal control afterall... I think you'll pass though.

 

Thanks for sharing your rather close views to the circumstance.

 

No prob... Good luck!

[Flyfisherman79]

I have been in this exact situation, and did exactly what the original poster is doing.

 

Here is the deal.

 

Some ATC towers are RUN by the FAA and probably wont give you a run through.

 

Most ATC towers are Contracted. Check with the towers in your area. They all have phone numbers listed. Find out if they are contracted or run by the FAA. All towers have the light gun, there is no difference in the equipment from tower to tower. Standard across the board. The thing to watch for is if the tower windows are tinted. That does throw it off just a little bit. Match the conditions the best you can. if the tower you will test at has tinted windows, find a tower for your test run that also has tinted windows. IF you can see the light gun through both conditions (tinted and untinted) all the better.

 

I have the same problem with color as you. It got me kicked out of WOCS / WOFT in the Army. The light signal really is easy. The white will damn near blind you! the green is green. Red is not a concern. You will do fine. The run through, however, really helped me out. A friend who is an airline pilot helped me out, as he knew the guy in the tower. I ran through the test a few times and at all kinds of distances. I did that just a couple days prior to me going with the FAA examiner for the SODA. Once you get the SODA you will never have to deal with the color portion again when renewing your medical.

 

Good Luck! It really is a peice of cake. If you want any further info, shoot me a pm or whatever.

[bubba]

Contact the fsdo in your area find out where they do the test at.

Go there the tower is used to doing the test.

They will help u if your nice. Take someone with u and go practice it a couple of times take a cell phone and the tower will tell u where to stop and then they will do the test.

You can also get used to the difference between white and green by looking at a headlight then looking at a green traffic light if you can see a difference u will pass.

I did mine got the restriction lifted and it makes renewing your medical a breeze hand them the letter every time and get checked and your gone.

Good luck!!!

[jrspilot32]

I took the signal light test. It was easy. A week earlier I went down to a towered class delta airport and the guys in the tower flashed the lights to me in the parking lot. I found the towers phone number online. If you can't do this just check out the beacons at airports at night. To me the white light is more yellow, red looks red, and green looks almost blue.

[nicepants]

I guess I'll end up having to check out that signal test....

 

I remember tests like these in grade school. Link (I could see 3-4 of those in the link)

As a kid I remember getting most of these wrong. I can see colors just fine, but I guess when they are barely distinguishable in all those dots, I just have trouble with some of them.

[CYGNUS I]

Hey Rick,

 

First I will say WOW! you got an awsome response. I posted on here about three months ago or so with the same problem and got virtually no response.

 

Anyway I just went through the same problem and now I have about 35 hrs. in a heli. It has been my dream like so many others since I was able to talk. I was so upset to find that now I had the money and the opportunity to finally go for it and I could'nt see those stupid dots!

 

I went blind into the light gun test (no pun intended) and it was 9 in the morning with the sun right in my eyes. I failed, calling a green light white. My inspector told me no problem if you pass the twilight test OKC does'nt mind if you re-take the test. So a couple of months went by and I took the twilight test and passed with no problem.

 

So as the story goes I call OKC to get a re-test and they say" sorry you only get one shot" I was so pissed! I was confused because my inspector said this and the FAA was saying that and no one could seem to agree. They also said that once you take the light gun test you could not go back and take an alternate test.

 

I searched for a farnsworth lantern test before all of this and could'nt find one. Would'nt you know it right in the middle of all this (after failing the day test) I found the fallant test not 1 mile from my house, go figure. At this point I had signed on at AOPA and they have an awsome medical forum with AME's that will talk to you and give you advice. So I got on there and yet some more contradictions. They were telling me that in fact I could still get results from an alternate test.

 

I then called OKC to request a re-test and they sent me a letter saying if I wish further concideration to have my restrictions removed I would have to submit test results from an alternate test. At this point I had already had the night restriction removed but still had "Not valid for flight requiring signal light control". I just wanted a clean cert.

 

I took the fallant test with an awsome AME here in phoenix and passed! Anyway I would deffinately keep trying to get a preview of the light gun. Red is no problem but the green and white will screw you up if you don't know what you are looking at. You could try to find a fallant test in Cali. and go that way. The FAA will have no record of this and you can take it as many times as you need to pass. I payed $40 bucks for mine and passed the first time. It's really no easier than the light gun test though. Maybe a little harder.

 

If you are interested in AZ there are a couple of great schools here one is in Chandler and one is in Prescott. Enough rambling just don't give up and try to be patient

 

 

Here is a link to a falant test in phoenix if any one else comes to this roadblock www.myflightsurgeon.com/Farnsworth.html

 

Good luck and keep your head up you will get through this and begin the rest of your life

 

 

[nicepants]

The falant test looks like one I could easily pass.

 

In fact, looking at more & more of those color dot tests...I find that if I focus my eyes slightly to the right of the plate, it's easier for me to pick out the number inside. If I can find the falant test locally, I'll do that, but I guess there's no harm in taking the color plate test if that's all I can locate.

 

My brother is just as bad with the dots as I am, my dad doesn't have any problem, but my mom's dad is the same as me...I guess I have him to thank for it.

[Flyfisherman79]

The falant test looks like one I could easily pass.

 

In fact, looking at more & more of those color dot tests...I find that if I focus my eyes slightly to the right of the plate, it's easier for me to pick out the number inside. If I can find the falant test locally, I'll do that, but I guess there's no harm in taking the color plate test if that's all I can locate.

 

My brother is just as bad with the dots as I am, my dad doesn't have any problem, but my mom's dad is the same as me...I guess I have him to thank for it.

 

 

Hey guys - I posted a while back, up above in this topic. The best advice is get in contact with a tower and get the lights shot at you. I have always failed the stupid dot test. The light gun test was a peice of cake. I took the Falant / Farnsworth lantern test in the army (while I was being DQ'd from Warrant Officer school) and the falant test is longer and harder. The important part is if you can see what the FAA needs you to see.....and you have the opportunity to go straight to the source and verify it. I cannot stress getting in touch with a tower and getting a run though enough. Go the next day or the same day and take the FAA Administered version. Its the same light gun across the aviation industry. THAT is what the FAA needs you to see. Its a peice of cake, and you will get a all restrictions lifted from your medical and off ya go. If you go to a tower and cant see the light gun.....let that be the deciding factor.