Single-Engine Ships in GOM?

[nicepants]

Curious for those of you flying in GOM or knowledgeable of same....

 

are a lot of the helicopters that fly oil workers/etc single engine ships?

 

It looks like PHI has a few listed on their fleet page

http://www.phihelico.com/Fleet_Sales_Helic...html#206LSeries

 

It seems like you wouldn't want to fly one of these where the only emergency landing location is salt-water, but I'm just starting my training so I'm far from an expert.

[clay]

for the most part GOM helicopters are single engine, single pilot VFR. The larger twins are for deep water crew changes etc, etc......

[Gomer Pylot]

Yeah, far more single-engine than twins out there. Landing in the water isn't so bad, at least it's flat most of the time, and no trees or other stuff to hit. All the ships have popout floats, so they don't usually sink right away. Some people freak out about flying over water, and just can't handle it, but it gets to be routine.

[nicepants]

Yeah, far more single-engine than twins out there. Landing in the water isn't so bad, at least it's flat most of the time, and no trees or other stuff to hit. All the ships have popout floats, so they don't usually sink right away. Some people freak out about flying over water, and just can't handle it, but it gets to be routine.

 

Good point about lack of obstructions, etc. I guess it seemed a bit of a gamble to send single engine ships out, knowing that an engine failure means basically losing the machine, whereas over land, you may only suffer a hard landing if you're lucky. Seems like for the passengers & crew, the over water situation would be just as safe, if not moreso.

[clay]

its a turbine aircraft, honestly, although it is a risk, its not that big of one, think of all the single engine a/c air log, phi, era, rlc, plus the ones that are just a bleep on the map fly a day without loosing engines. hundreds of hours a day are flown without loosing an a/c (not even considering the rest of the worlds single engine a/c), although granted it does happen sometimes, not very often. the cost of a twin engine just doesnt justify that small risk .

Edited August 3, 2007 by clay

[Gomer Pylot]

Not that many are actually lost from engine failure. The floats will work long enough to get a boat to the aircraft in most cases, and they're mostly recovered, albeit with lots of damage from the recovery, much of the time. I've seen 206s that landed in the water with no damage at all, but almost destroyed by the boat trying to tow them too fast, and some beating from being lifted by the crane on the nearest platform. Some are recovered with no damage, though. There are probably ~5 206s/year that go down, out of close to a million hours flown in the GOM overall each year. Actually, it's probably closer to half a million these days, with all the mergers and automation that has gone on, plus the use of bigger aircraft, such as the S92. Back in the 80s, PHI alone was flying close to half a million hours per year.

[Sugatrix]

Without hijacking the thread, how much does it cost to opperate a twin engine for example the S92? And, how much do they have to charge the client to make a profit?

[Gomer Pylot]

I don't have accurate numbers for an S92, but the operators are charging well over $100k/month plus flight time, which is somewhere in the 4 digit/hour range. Twins cover a very large range, from something the size of a BO105, at 4 passenger seats, to the S92, at 19 or so passenger seats.

[Guest pokey]

costs of operation are very interesting, especially the 'hi-dollar' ones. I remember back in the early 90's, a CH-47 cost around 17 thousand/hr to operate,,,,,,,anyone remember Trump & his 3 black ones? (he went bust just as he was putting them in operation) Good ole Ivana <sigh>

[Sugatrix]

Gomer,

 

As always, I can count on you for the skinny. Thank you for that. This GOM operation just facinates me. Helicopters are so very expensive to operate (BTW, Sikorsky says the s-92 is about $2300/hr.) and yet the industry just flourishes down there. Question, when you say that they are paying more than $100K/mo., is that per aircraft or is that just a flat rate so that they can "reserve" aircraft so to speak? In one of your other posts you say 1000 hrs is a good average for GOM pilots. That would mean that, with for instance the s-92, they would have to pay the operators about $200k just to cover cost of operation. I know that most AC don't cost that much fly but with over 1000 helicopters flying every day, the numbers just to cover cost are staggering.

 

Do they work a trade for fuel?

[Gomer Pylot]

That's per aircraft, but the price depends on the model. Most contracts are for a fixed amount per month to reserve the aircraft, and then some amount per flight hour, and it's different for every model, because they cost different amounts to operate. You can get a 206 a lot cheaper than an S92, obviously, but the S92 does so much more for you. It depends on what the oil company needs, and most lease a variety of models. There is no trade for fuel - the helicopter companies buy bulk fuel from wholesalers, not directly from the refineries. The costs for helicopters may be staggering for you, but some of the major oil companies, who pay millions per year for them, don't even bother to budget separately for them, effectively paying the costs out of 'petty cash'. The oil companies are making such huge profits, the cost of the helicopter transportation is very minor, not even worth the effort to budget separately, just thrown into 'transportation' or something similar. The after-tax net profits of the large oil companies are more than the gross national product of most countries in the world, nevermind the revenues. When your net profit is in the tens of billions of dollars per quarter you don't worry about a few hundred thousand here and there.

[Sugatrix]

I can't even get my head around the kind of numbers you are talking about. I guess thats why companies like PHI and ERA are constantly expanding. But it seems like there would be a point where there are too many helicopters and not enough demand for them. Is there alot of down time for certain ships and pilots, or is there more business than anyone can fully service? I'd love to see a real time map of the Gulf with a beacon for every helicopter flying. All the flight paths must look like an intricate web. Do you miss it now that your in EMS?

 

ps. Thanks for letting me pic your brain.

[Gomer Pylot]

It goes in cycles. Sometimes there are too many helicopters, sometimes not enough, mostly about the right numbers. I don't know of any source for anything like you want to see. The FAA's radar doesn't even cover a big chunk of the area. Maybe DHS, but they aren't likely to share. I miss the IFR a little, because that's the most satisfying flying I've done, but not much else. I certainly don't miss the long drives across the washboard highways.