civilian thinking about military

[aero]

Like many of my CFI friends, I have found myself without a job. I have always thought about flying for the military, and it looks like now might be a good time to really pursue that, but I have a few questions first.

 

First, I am now left with a huge loan. Would I be able to make enough money to start to pay back my loan and still have my family able to survive? I realize I won't be rich, but that's not why I started flying in the first place. I just want my family to have food on the table and the bills paid.

 

Second, is it worth taking the time off of flying? I am not enlisted now, so I would have to go through everything( basic trining ,AIT, WOC, ETC.). When I do get to Flight Training, I get 150-200 hrs in 2 yrs (at least that what I am told) so is it worth spending 2 1/2 to 3 yrs and come out with 200 hrs. (even though they would be turbine) when in that time I could possibly get alot more doing instruction, and be able to hopefully get a commercial job in a year or more.

 

 

any who has any advice I would appreciate it.

[Hawkdriver]

Like many of my CFI friends, I have found myself without a job. I have always thought about flying for the military, and it looks like now might be a good time to really pursue that, but I have a few questions first.

 

First, I am now left with a huge loan. Would I be able to make enough money to start to pay back my loan and still have my family able to survive? I realize I won't be rich, but that's not why I started flying in the first place. I just want my family to have food on the table and the bills paid.

 

Second, is it worth taking the time off of flying? I am not enlisted now, so I would have to go through everything( basic trining ,AIT, WOC, ETC.). When I do get to Flight Training, I get 150-200 hrs in 2 yrs (at least that what I am told) so is it worth spending 2 1/2 to 3 yrs and come out with 200 hrs. (even though they would be turbine) when in that time I could possibly get alot more doing instruction, and be able to hopefully get a commercial job in a year or more.

 

 

any who has any advice I would appreciate it.

 

 

Im going to be blunt.

 

 

If you are thinking about the Military to JUST pad your logbook then don't.

 

Really it's a moot point how many hours you get the first year (what most street to seat applicants spend before arriving at their unit). You will owe 6 ADSO years upon completion of flight school.

 

You will however get some of the best helicopter instruction in the world. You will fly someplace other than the pattern or the occasional cross country like you would as a CFI. You will deploy. You will have jobs besides being a pilot.

 

I don't know how much you owe in loans, but a W1 makes as much a year or more then starting out jobs w/1000hrs in the helicopter civilian world.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[freereality]

HawkDriver;

 

What is the current time line for the WOC program? How much time in enlisted training? How much time in WOC training? How much time in flight training? What is the pay grade for each phase, including flight pay?

 

Would the Army even consider any prior civilian training in helicopters?

 

It might be difficult for the OP to make payments on his/her loan prior to reaching WOC pay grade and receive flight pay.

 

Is the 6 year active duty obligation from date of graduation from flight training?

 

Upon completion of initial flight training what aircraft will the WOC be qualified in?

 

Seems to me it is likely that it would take almost 2 years before completion of flight training and then a 6 year obligation, heck only 12 more and they could retire?

[Hawkdriver]

HawkDriver;

 

What is the current time line for the WOC program? How much time in enlisted training? How much time in WOC training? How much time in flight training? What is the pay grade for each phase, including flight pay?

 

Would the Army even consider any prior civilian training in helicopters?

 

It might be difficult for the OP to make payments on his/her loan prior to reaching WOC pay grade and receive flight pay.

 

Is the 6 year active duty obligation from date of graduation from flight training?

 

Upon completion of initial flight training what aircraft will the WOC be qualified in?

 

Seems to me it is likely that it would take almost 2 years before completion of flight training and then a 6 year obligation, heck only 12 more and they could retire?

 

 

There is no enlisted training if he is accepted off the street. It's 7 weeks or so at basic training followed by 6 weeks at WOC then flight school which entails a few things intermingled. Admittedly there are bubbles and breaks which extends the timeline. Still no more then just over a year though for the entire thing.

 

During Basic training he is paid as an E5 with the same during the 6 weeks at WOC school. After that he is paid as a W1.

 

Depending on your ratings, the Army in the past has allowed pilots with advance ratings to skip the "primary" phase before moving to instruments. After that they all are trained the same no matter what you have. Even in that case there is no reason to skip primary. Its a chance to gain more flight time, see how the Army does training, what they expect of an Army Aviator, and develops the correct study habits for the future.

 

Your 6 year ADSO begins on the award of your aeronautical designation date.

 

Again, the OP already stated he is having trouble with employment now. So how is he paying for his loans now? I dont know, and I know they are steep because it's not cheap on the outside.

 

Upon completion, someone with no experience would leave trained in a th-67 (Bell 206 Family) and whatever aircraft they were assigned. Also if you took the Military to FAA written you can get you commercial rotary wing.

 

You are right. It's a big obligation. It's meant to be. The Army spends massive amounts of money to train you. This includes medical, housing, insurance, etc........ They want return on their investment. How much do you think it would cost to equal training on the outside in something like a Chinook or Blackhawk? Think your bill for the R-22 was big (I do however sympathize because it is alot out of your own pocket), guess how much it is to operate a Blackhawk per hour.

 

Add that to educational money you get paid out if you got the GI bill, additional professional training not included in the Aviation realm and lots of 4 day weekends and I think it is a fair trade for 6 years at the end of flight school.

 

 

I will add, it is very competitive now for off the street applicants. The slots have decreased dramatically recently.

 

I truely wish the OP good luck, but just wanted to point out it's more then just "flight school".

[FLHooker]

If I may throw in my 2 cents...

 

Remember that, on Active Duty, you can either live on base OR given an allowance for housing so you and your family can live off base each month. Most places, it's sufficient to live off base, even make money by living off base. You and your family have health insurance that you don't pay for (with the exception of a little bit for your family, yours is free).

 

the 100-200 hours you are talking about in flight school... eh, whatever, you are in training that entire time, you really start 'building' time and experience when you get back to your unit. Like Hawkdriver said though, don't expect to come off of active duty in 6 years with a ton of flight time, granted you will have a good amount, the amount is VERY dependant on where you go, what you fly, maintenance hours, your motivation level, etc... many many variables. There is no way in telling you prior to you getting there.

 

If money is an issue, which almost always is... go to www.military.com and go to their finance page and look at the money rates. Keep in mind you will be getting more than that, cause that's just the BASE pay, not including BAH, BAS, and any special pays.

 

The training... It's free, hell you are getting PAID to go fly, right off the bat. I get paid, what I consider well, to go fly a Chinook. I absolutely love it. That being said, not everyone does. Hell, I got paid yesterday to go get Bambi bucket/Long line qualified. 100' line with a 2000 gal bucket. Get that on the outside world and you are talking BIG money.

 

 

 

With all that being said, it is NOT FOR EVERYONE. You really need to decide early on whether or not you are going to do it. You will be deployed, you will be away from your family, and it definitely SUCKS sometimes. I know several people who got into the Army, went to Flight School and ended up doing a "DOR" or Drop On Request just because it was not for them. Include your family in the decision, because I really feel that my wife is just as much in the military as I am. It affects them too. Not to scare to you, but divorces happen because of flight school. It's alot to consider

 

 

 

CHAD

[Kelly N.]

Not to scare to you, but divorces happen because of flight school. It's alot to consider

 

 

Hell, divorces happen because of the military in general. Flight school or not, if you're married, make sure you and your spouse are on the same page and comfortable with spending extended periods of time away from each other. Having family nearby to help support your spouse and kids (emotional and moral support, not necessarily financial) while you're deployed or in training is a big plus.

 

I got out after 9 years in the service (not aviation) 3 years after getting married. Out of those 3 years, I was actually with my family about 6-8 months. Nowadays, that's probably more of the norm than it was during my heyday.

 

Remember, it's a big comittment and not something to do lightly. A lot of the younger soldiers coming in during my last years of service had joined with an eye towards paying student loans or getting $$ for college. There's nothing wrong with that, but just remember you're not just going to another job. Don't make that move unless you're mentally prepared for the sacrifices you may have to make and the inherent risk of being a soldier.

 

Service to your country is one of the most honorable and noble jobs a man or woman can undertake, however, if you don't go into it with open eyes it can also do a number on the rest of your life.

 

Sorry for the rant/soapbox. I loved the service and still wonder if I should have stayed until retirement, however I did see quite a few young people getting in without fully understanding the potential hazards and ruining a good portion of their lives.

 

Good luck whatever you decide,

Kelly

[aero]

thanks for all the help, I'm not thinking about joining just for the hours. obviously if it was hours then I would be staying in the CFI field. Especially since I will probably be joining the reserves. But the the training and the helicopters are very appealing, and it's not something that I just decided to do. I have thought about it for a while, and my family backs me 100% and is very supportive, especially considering that the unit that I'm talking to right now is planning on getting deployed shortly after I would get done with flight training. So the possibilities of me going are almost 100%. I appreciate all of the good advice. and I am always open to any more advice anyone has to offer.

[Kelly N.]

thanks for all the help, I'm not thinking about joining just for the hours. obviously if it was hours then I would be staying in the CFI field. Especially since I will probably be joining the reserves. But the the training and the helicopters are very appealing, and it's not something that I just decided to do. I have thought about it for a while, and my family backs me 100% and is very supportive, especially considering that the unit that I'm talking to right now is planning on getting deployed shortly after I would get done with flight training. So the possibilities of me going are almost 100%. I appreciate all of the good advice. and I am always open to any more advice anyone has to offer.

 

 

Sounds like your head is in the right place. Everything's a risk, but you appear to be doing the right things in considering this decision.

 

Whichever you decide, good luck and be safe. The military can be very rewarding and the experience you gain does impact your life in more ways than just employability. It's like anything, you have a lot of control in determining whether or not your experience is positive or negative. Seems like you have a good head on your shoulders and that's a big plus.

 

Again, good luck!

Kelly