Helicopter crashes atop L.A. skyscraper

[justfly]

Zoinks!  Don't mean to criticize or Monday-morning-quarterback here, and glad to hear the crew pulled it off (keeping the crash atop the tower & no injuries) ::bowdown::  ...'cause thoughts of the alternatives is givin me the willies!  

 

Was the top of a 723 foot tower their best autorotation spot?  Aren't there any ground level parking lots or empty-ish streets around there?  Missed it a little more, and.....  

 

Anyone see a picture of the aftermath anywhere?

 

Helicopter Makes Emergency Landing on Roof

 

LOS ANGELES — A helicopter pilot tried to land on the roof of a downtown high-rise due to an "in-flight emergency" today, but the craft missed the heliport and landed hard on the roof, a fire official said.

 

The two men aboard the two-seat Robinson R-22 were uninjured and there was no fire, but the chopper was seriously damaged, said Brian Humphrey of the Los Angeles Fire Department.

 

Fire crews were called to the 54-story Wells Fargo building at 333 S. Grand Ave. about 10:15 a.m., said Humphrey.

 

"There was some type of in-flight emergency," said Humphrey. "The pilot attempted to land on the rooftop heliport, but he missed the heliport and the helicopter impacted the rooftop."

 

The hard landing left the tail section of the craft twisted and the fuselage damaged.

 

There was no obvious damage to the roof, said Humphrey.

 

Fire crews were sent to the 723-foot building -- the seventh tallest in Los Angeles -- after getting a call from security personnel there, he said.

 

The hard landing will be investigated by the National Transportation Safety Board.

 

Humphrey said the helicopter is 15 years old.

 

(Copyright 2004 by The CNS. All Rights Reserved.)  

 

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**   Report created 12/13/2004   Record 2                                     **

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IDENTIFICATION

 Regis#: 145RJ        Make/Model: R22       Description: R-22

 Date: 12/11/2004     Time: 1813

 

 Event Type: Accident   Highest Injury: None     Mid Air: N    Missing: N

 Damage: Substantial

 

LOCATION

 City: LOS ANGELES                 State: CA   Country: US

 

DESCRIPTION

 HELO EXPERIENCED A LOSS OF ENGINE POWER AT 1200 FT AND MADE A FORCED

 LANDING ONTO THE 55 STORY WELLS FARGO BUILDING IN DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES, CA.

 NO INJURIES AND SUBSTANTIAL DAMAGE IS REPORTED. LOS ANGELES, CA

 

INJURY DATA      Total Fatal:   0

                # Crew:   1     Fat:   0     Ser:   0     Min:   0     Unk:    

                # Pass:   1     Fat:   0     Ser:   0     Min:   0     Unk:    

                # Grnd:         Fat:   0     Ser:   0     Min:   0     Unk:    

 

WEATHER: CLEAR AND HOT                                                              

                                                                                   

OTHER DATA

 Activity: Pleasure      Phase: Cruise      Operation: General Aviation

 

 Departed: LONG BEACH, CA              Dep Date: 12/11/2004   Dep. Time: 1745

 Destination: LONG BEACH, CA  LGB      Flt Plan: NONE         Wx Briefing: U

 Last Radio Cont: UNKN

 Last Clearance: UNKN

 

 FAA FSDO: LOS ANGELES, CA  (WP23)               Entry date: 12/13/2004

[RDRickster]

I don't think he did an auto to the rooftop, did he?  All depends on what "loss of power" means.  Maybe he just lost a mag, which can give you the fits and would make anybody want to put it down via the shortest path.  Whatever happended, I'd sure like to know the details.

[Heloeddie]

My guess is that he was practicing approaches to the rooftop, got into vortex ring state and crapped it on the roof. The whole "loss of engine power" is probably what he thought happened when he couldnt slow down his rate of descent.

[delorean]

I highly doubt that Wells Fargo allows students to practice on their helipad.  When I started EMS we couldn't use the word "training" when going into roof tops for the first time.  We'd tell them we were doing a "local orientation" for a pilot new to the region.  Back to the crash--I won't post their info, but you can look it up for yourself--it's registered to a small school in LA.

[Dean]

My guess is that he was practicing approaches to the rooftop, got into vortex ring state and crapped it on the roof. The whole "loss of engine power" is probably what he thought happened when he couldnt slow down his rate of descent.

I see this is an old post but Im going to post anyway HELOEDDIE do you know the pilots or have it on good information that they got into VORTEX or is it just some Bull**** asumption.

 

OK they landed on a rooftop instead of on the ground but they landed safely without hurting anyone in the heli or on the surface.

 

From what I can see they done a good job.

[justfly]

preliminary report is here: LAX05LA049

 

Dean I have to agree it worked out, mostly, but not sure I would classify it "landed safely"?  Still gives me the willies thinking if they had missed a little more!

 

Would love to hear why that was the best spot to auto to, maybe in the final?  Anyone with REAL info?

[Dean]

Yeah I agree it would give me the willies also (It would scare the S*** out of me) but maybe with his height, position, obstacles in his flight path, lack of landing sites on the ground he had no choice.

 

He probobly made the best desision he could with his experiance for the circumstance's at that split second when the emergency arrose.

 

Maybe that was the only landing site available.

 

Maybe there was another landing site on the ground, But he could have landed there and things could have gone wrong resulting in death.

 

Talking in general (These comments are not aimed at anyone here) I find there are to many pilots who say, Why did he do that? I would have done this or Why did he land on the roof? I would have landed on the ground in a car park etc.

 

Im useing this incident as an example. The truth is untill it happens to you, You can not say what you will do or more to the point what you would have done in that situation.

 

We all have a good idea of what we should and would like to do in the situation, ie land safely with no damage to heli or injuries to people.

 

Who are we to judje him and imply he did somthing wrong.

 

From what I can see he did the best he could under the circumstances at the time and because of that him and his friend are still alive.

 

::2thumbsat::

[justfly]

Who are we to judje him and imply he did somthing wrong.

Dean, thanks for your feedback.  For me it's not about judging him, as much about questioning my own judgement.  I would think if I were given those circumstances I would have chosen a different course.  What would/could have been the outcome with my choice?  Of course we can't know the answers, but I wonder if there is some set of circumstances that should push the idea of doing an auto to a small target 723 feet in the air higher up my list of possible "outs"?  Of course if it was a hover auto, or clearing the rooftop adequately without snagging it were in question that may be the best option.  But the report says he was at 1200' at the start.  That makes me think there would have been other options, and makes me question my differential for safe outs.  Did he make a bad choice and get lucky, or am I not giving the rooftop adequate consideration in my list of possibles?  I tried to convey in the initial post that I didn't wan't to sit in judgement of this pilot's choices.  I'm just trying to learn, grateful I wasn't faced with his situation, and want to take home any lessons offered.  Same reason I read a LOT of NTSB reports, "Fatal Traps For Helicopter Pilots", and any other sources of safety info I can.

 

"Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make all of them yourself."

[Dean]

Hi Justfly

 

I think the guy had a lot of luck on his side, Maybe I would of picked another landing area or the same one, I don't know the area or the terain. From what I read he only damaged the main rotor when it hit some an object, So I would say he done a resonable auto. I thought the report from the FAAwas a bit vague it didn't say anything about a choice of other landing areas, Which I think would have been usefull in this situation (For us to learn)

 

Check out GASIL on the UK CAA website it a safety mag from the UK (Heli section at the back) www.caa.co.uk GASIL is in the safety section.

 

Thanks Dean.

[justfly]

... I thought the report from the FAAwas a bit vague it didn't say anything about a choice of other landing areas, Which I think would have been usefull in this situation (For us to learn)...

It usually takes about a year after the accident before a final report is posted, hope that will be a bit more illuminating.

[fulldownauto]

Dean,

 

Downtown LA is far from the best place to have an engine failure. Take a look at this video, a flight through downtown LA. They did get a little close to the buildings on this one, eh?

 

http://www.fizin.com/fizchat/0108/MOV00008.MPG

 

I guess there are a few spots: the streets, a park, the top of a parking structure; but nothing that looks particularly inviting.

 

James

[John90290]

At 20 seconds during the video the Wells Fargo building is the Red/Rose Granite building on the far left. I worked in the smaller "sister" KPMG building to the right of the Wells Fargo building. You also see it on the left at 30 seconds. That park in the video just past that is super steep. in the picture at this site,  the park is on the right (41 seconds) ,wells fargo building behind note the incline.

 

http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?17224

[RTRNV]

I'm thinking the roof top was the best bet.  It's still the wrong helio for training unless you already have a cert and are now training to fly a R22 and have been thru SFAR 73.  

 

Looking at the ground for an auto has some advantages like more time to plan out the thing, maybe more room for a better flare, more room for ground run out. Its also true there would be lower density alititude at GL than 700 or so AGL but in city like LA I would'nt count on having to many places on the ground that are perfect for an auto let alone be lucky enough to be near one when it happens.  

 

Main and/or tail rotors stricking pedestrians or vehicles or even something else first like a sign post then fragmenting is'nt good on a crouded city street.   The majority of the rotor fragments (if not all) probably stayed on the roof.  The saftey nets and shelf on a FAA approved roof top pad exist for a reason. Another thing as that going down around all the buildings would make for some unpredictable winds.  I have become good at predicting/avoiding structure generated shears by observing the wind sock and looking at the surrounding structures, terrain and trees and extrapolating their effects.  

 

I have watched a EMS helio land at a local hospital which had 3 wind socks all pointing in different directions.  One was on a pole at GL and two on two different levels and points on buildings.   Think high, middle, ground level.  He had to decend thru two shifts in wind direction and velocity.  

 

Scrubing altitude off at the rate of an auto thru unpredicable winds while traveling at the recomended auto rotation airspeed per the POH is'nt a good idea in downtown LA.