Fixed wing pilot okay to fly single place helicopter?

[jtravis1]

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Edited January 25, 2009 by jtravis1

[RockyMountainPilot]

It is written into the operating limitations that are issued to an experimental aircraft at it's time of certification. This change came about in the mid 90's.

 

See (17) and (18) of attached OL. These are very similar to what is issued with ANY newly certified experimental home-built.

 

You sent me a link to the EAA. The EAA is not the FAA. Where is the link to the FAA? Also, those operating limitations imposed are concerning the test flying of experimental aircraft. The FAA list experiemental aircraft limitations is FAR Part § 91.319 Aircraft having experimental certificates: Operating limitations. This is regulatory and it does not mention pilot certificates or ratings. The EAA is not regulatory.

[jtravis1]

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Edited January 25, 2009 by jtravis1

[RockyMountainPilot]

You mean this order which has been canceled?

 

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance...ion=2#_Section2

[jtravis1]

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Edited January 25, 2009 by jtravis1

[RockyMountainPilot]

Not all experimental aircraft are amateur built. There are an additional 7 categories of experimental aircraft. None of which would receive such a limitation by the order you presented.

 

Also, how do people operate experimental aircraft for which no cat or class exists?

[jtravis1]

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Edited January 25, 2009 by jtravis1

[PhotoFlyer]

Gentlemen, lets tone it down. Personal attacks are not welcome here.

[jtravis1]

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Edited January 25, 2009 by jtravis1

[Wannabe1]

JTravis1...

 

The fellows building Mosquitos and talking about them over on the Mosquito forum apparently are not being limited when the operation limitations are issued. For just one reference, see a post dated 12/5/08 at 4:36 AM where a fellow claims his DAR agrees the FAA doesn't care if he has a rotorcraft rating or not (needs the FW rating though) if he flys a SINGLE place helo.

http://www.innovator.mosquito.net.nz/mbbs2...76&posts=21

 

 

 

Those same operating limitations are still issued with every amateur built even though the FAA has canceled 8130.2f.

The cancellation of 8130.2.f will in no way have any effect on the issuance of operating limitations on experimental AB aircraft.

[jtravis1]

Wannabe

 

Every experimental I have seen (where I have known the owner) has almost the same operating limitations issued when the AW cert is issued. I know for sure that mine had it.....BUT every FSDO is different.

 

Even though I no longer fly experimental helos (I now own a Hughes 500), I am still very active in the experimental community. I participate quite a bit on a Rotorway owners forum and have many friends that fly them. I will post a request to have guys look at their operating limitations and see if it is in theirs as well. That way we get a good sampling from areas around the country. This topic came up one time before though and most all the guys confirmed that it was in theirs as well.....but I will still check.

 

On another note.....as an instructor.....I would NEVER recommend someone fly without proper training. Helos are not like an airplane.....it WILL take you AT LEAST the minimum amount of time set fourth by the FAA to get a rating, before you are safe in a helicopter.....so might as well go ahead and get the rating.

 

I will go even further....as a CFI and a person with experimental experience, I will go so far as to say people should learn to fly in certified ships. I dont believe that Exp Am built aircraft have the safety margin and controllability that allow a CFI to fully train a student in them.

 

Lastly.....without going into great detail, I am not a big fan of the mosquito. The helicycle on the other hand is a FAR superior single place machine.... Not even in the same league and not much difference in price.

[Wannabe1]

JTravis

 

Thanks for the feedback and willingness to check it out. I continue to find it very hard to believe that the FAA would let this exemption stand. I suppose after a few single place experimental machines wreck....

 

BTW, saw you took your 500 to Homers. The paint job looks good!

 

 

Wannabe

 

This topic came up one time before though and most all the guys confirmed that it was in theirs as well.....but I will still check.

[RockyMountainPilot]

JTravis,

 

Try coming up wit VALID references instead of personal attacks.

[jtravis1]

JTravis,

 

Try coming up wit VALID references instead of personal attacks.

Edited January 25, 2009 by jtravis1

[jtravis1]

Hope this helps

Edited January 25, 2009 by jtravis1

[StanFoster]

This is an interesting thread. I am currently building a Helicycle. The factory requires before shipping me a key rotorhead component that I have soloed in an R22. I of course started taking lessons....and soloed at 20 hours. I knew from the beginning that it would be stupid to not finish my helicopter rating. I have a PPSEL and 800 plus hours in gyroplanes.

 

I have completed all my solo time..cross country,,,and 3 hours check ride prep. I am just polishing up my 180 autos before my check ride thats anytime now/

 

But...all this being said...I was told I could fly a single place experimental helicopter with my PPSEL license.

 

Stan

[Dave Storey]

So it has been a few years since this thread has been active. The Mosquito XE Series line of helicopter have gone on to be one of the mainstays in the single seat experimental helicopters with a ver good safety record. 

Are there any pilots here exercising flying experimental helicopters under a PPL?

[Discap]

Ok let the fire bombs begin. I am that guy that taught himself to fly a helicopter. Believe it or not it’s hard to find someone who wants to give primary instruction in a home made helicopter. 
 

I built a safari and had 3 or 4 hours of instruction at the factory. Couldn’t book any time because my instructor wasn’t one. I went through all the legal stuff with the Wichita FSDO.  Basically, because there is no category class in the experimental world the FAA doesn’t differentiate between rotary and fixed wings. If you built it and have a license, you can fly it. Isn’t this a great country?

it was an interesting process.  I put together my own curriculum. I was patient and very deliberate. Notice I didn’t say smart. I acquired bits and pieces of instruction over the years. There were two things that I refused to experiment with on my own. Settling with power and vortex ring state. I would however wind up doing multiple full down autos, most unintentional. 
 

By the time I got my PPL I probably had about 300 hrs in the ship. I got a special dispensation from the FSDO to allow the local examiner to give me a check ride. I learned that the FSDO can’t just say no to a checkride. If they won’t do it you can demand that they appoint someone to do it. Of course you cannot demand that the local DPE comply with your request. 
 

lots of interesting stories from my self training. Never scared myself. I refused to put myself in that type of position. 
 

I DO NOT RECOMMEND TEACHING YOURSELF TO FLY A HELICOPTER. Igor did it and I did it and I’m pretty sure there are others. It is neither smart nor safe. 

let the bombs fall  you can’t call me anything that I haven’t called myself  

Bill

commercial/instrument Rotary (hope to have my ATP by end of year)

PPL single, multi fixed instrument