Commercial Add-on before Private

[kodoz]

Answer the first question before you read the regs, and answer the second if reading the regs changes your mind.

 

I'll save you all looking up the regs, but those of you with a 2010 FAR/AIM might want to compare the online version to your print copy. Here are the 2 that I think are relevant:

 

§ 61.63 Additional aircraft ratings (...). [link]

 

§ 61.123 Eligibility requirements: General. [link]

[Rogue]

I'm curious to what people think that say you can't and why

[kodoz]

I'm curious to what people think that say you can't and why

 

Me too. The printed FARs are a little different than the same regs online, and I think it changes the interpretation. Maybe. I really don't know.

[rotorrodent]

Me too. The printed FARs are a little different than the same regs online, and I think it changes the interpretation. Maybe. I really don't know.

 

A FAA Examiner showed me that the online regs are current as of "" date, vs the printed FARs were "current" as of the date of publishing. Already the 2010 FARs printed regs have been superceded by the online version in some cases.

 

Rotorrodent

[rotorrodent]

Answer the first question before you read the regs, and answer the second if reading the regs changes your mind.

 

...Can you add a Commercial Helicopter if you hold a Private FW? .....

 

The FAR shows in order to obtain a Commercial, among the blah, blah, blah stuff, applicant has to have a Private Certificate. It doesn't state what kind (Category,Class), just a private issued under Part 61.

 

the answer then is....Yes....as long as you blah, blah, blah.

 

(not to sway the votes of others!)

 

Rotorrodent

[jumpngonuts]

The FAR shows in order to obtain a Commercial, among the blah, blah, blah stuff, applicant has to have a Private Certificate. It doesn't state what kind (Category,Class), just a private issued under Part 61.

 

the answer then is....Yes....as long as you blah, blah, blah.

 

(not to sway the votes of others!)

 

Rotorrodent

[/quote

 

Before I started mine I called my local fsdo to double check if I could do that, and the individual I talked to that day said yes I could. He said exactly what rotorrodent just said. There are so many ways you can interpret the FARs. Every time I read one, I have to read it about 8 more times to make sure I'm reading it the right way.

[kodoz]

When I read my printed FARs, I decided that no, you could not add a commercial heli to a PPL FW on account of this phrase in 61.63:

 

An applicant who holds a pilot certificate and applies to add a category rating to that pilot certificate...

 

"that" being "that private pilot certificate".

 

On discussing this with somebody much more experienced then me, we got to looking at the online FARs. The key difference in 61.63 (for me, anyway), is:

 

A person who applies to add a category rating to a pilot certificate.

 

"a" could be any pilot certificate, right?

 

61.23((5), or ((4) if you are looking online, also specifies that a knowledge test isn't required if the applicant has a certificate at "that" level (the implication being that the pilot could apply for the add on with a certificate at another level). In 61.123(h), the requirement for a PPL doesn't specify in the same category.

 

That's my reasoning, shallow as it may be.

[yzchopper]

According to this wording (see below) you will still need to do a knowledge test because you do not hold a commercial fw rating which is at the pilot certificate level of a commercial helicopter pilot rating being sought. Correct me if I'm wrong please.

 

§ 61.63 Additional aircraft ratings...

(a)(4) Need not take an additional knowledge test if the person holds an airplane, rotorcraft, powered-lift, or airship rating at that pilot certificate level.

 

I will ask a DPE today if I get the chance to talk to him and will give an update as to what he said.

 

Steve

[kodoz]

According to this wording (see below) you will still need to do a knowledge test

 

Right (I think, anyway). You're already a pilot (albeit a PPL in an airplane), so that gets you can skip the PPL helicopter. All you need to be tested on is the commercial pilot material.

[yzchopper]

Well talked to the DPE and he stated you can indeed get the commercial helicopter certificate without doing the PPL helicopter. He also said but why would you do that, you still need 100hrs PIC and at least 50hrs helicopter time. It will still cost you lack of experience because you will be flying solo to build those 100hrs and if anything it will hurt you because employers look at helicopter hrs and could care less about fw hrs. Also you will have to do the knowledge test because you do not hold a category or class rating at the desired level.

 

Steve