Informal Survey & general opinions regarding post-Wirestrike/Obst. collision lawsuits

[arotrhd]

All-

 

I'm really curious as to what some opinions and thoughts are regarding lawsuits following a wirestrike or collision with a related obstruction (try to keep it in perspective from a pilot and then from survivor/family if possible). I "finally" felt compelled to engage this after reading the NTSB report (again) for 05 JAN 2010/ Jetranger, and the subsequent lawsuit filed against SoCal Edison and Landells Aviation from as discussed here.

 

This topic is near and dear to me after spending 2-1/2 years working through a graduate thesis & defense regarding wiresrike avoidance education for the civilian population. No joke. Actual title is "Will the rate if civilian helicopter wire strikes and related collisions be reduced by mandatory wire strike avoidance education and training?" (kinda torqued my colleagues who submitted after me, as my final thesis was 284 pages) . Instructors loved it because they pull this out and tell graduate candidates, "this is average work...". I like to think that it really is a sleep aid that should have been patented; just raise it above your head about 12" and drop. Guarantee you'll get a full 8 hours sleep.

 

Results? Statistics, damned statistic and lies (OK, maybe not), but there was a pretty healthy section dedicated to the lawsuits that follow events. Really, I had a great response from my survey respondents and experts, especially considering the thesis surveys were sent out on Sept. 08, 2001, and first returns were dated Sept. 11, 2001 and later. Nothing like having a little variable to deal with, but ultimately the hypothesis was validated.

 

I'm trying to remain impartial, but the marker balls do have limited installation for one of several reasons: if a utility marks a wire, they have, in a sense, recognized (no pun intended, and from a legal perspective) that wires/obstructions can't be seen and therefore are dangerous. Most utilities would like to mark more, but if they do so on their own, they have basically admitted guilt from a legal sense, and aviation lawyers know where the deep pockets are. And then, from the polar perspective, how many of us really want to drive home looking through the darkness caused by the shadows from billions of marker balls place on the wires around us?

 

So what are your thoughts from a your/pilot's perspective? - young and old, new and experienced....all are welcome and respected.

 

If you smack a wire and happen to die - or maybe not, and possibly other people die or get hurt or lose business due to service outage as a result, what do you think a family of the pilot, those on-board and others who were collateral "victims" would/should do, as it will likely be determined that PIC failure will be probable cause (tho NTSB can't be admitted in trial). Is it fair game to go after the Pilot's family? Utility? Operator? Airframe Manufacturer? Government? Nobody? Everybody? Somebody? Don't Care?

 

Help wind this up and let's see where it goes. Maybe this will make me think again about pursuing a terminal degree focused on this.

 

 

-WATCH FOR THE PATTERNS, WATCH FOR THE WIRES-

[rick1128]

All-

 

I'm really curious as to what some opinions and thoughts are regarding lawsuits following a wirestrike or collision with a related obstruction (try to keep it in perspective from a pilot and then from survivor/family if possible). I "finally" felt compelled to engage this after reading the NTSB report (again) for 05 JAN 2010/ Jetranger, and the subsequent lawsuit filed against SoCal Edison and Landells Aviation from as discussed here.

 

This topic is near and dear to me after spending 2-1/2 years working through a graduate thesis & defense regarding wiresrike avoidance education for the civilian population. No joke. Actual title is "Will the rate if civilian helicopter wire strikes and related collisions be reduced by mandatory wire strike avoidance education and training?" (kinda torqued my colleagues who submitted after me, as my final thesis was 284 pages) . Instructors loved it because they pull this out and tell graduate candidates, "this is average work...". I like to think that it really is a sleep aid that should have been patented; just raise it above your head about 12" and drop. Guarantee you'll get a full 8 hours sleep.

 

Results? Statistics, damned statistic and lies (OK, maybe not), but there was a pretty healthy section dedicated to the lawsuits that follow events. Really, I had a great response from my survey respondents and experts, especially considering the thesis surveys were sent out on Sept. 08, 2001, and first returns were dated Sept. 11, 2001 and later. Nothing like having a little variable to deal with, but ultimately the hypothesis was validated.

 

I'm trying to remain impartial, but the marker balls do have limited installation for one of several reasons: if a utility marks a wire, they have, in a sense, recognized (no pun intended, and from a legal perspective) that wires/obstructions can't be seen and therefore are dangerous. Most utilities would like to mark more, but if they do so on their own, they have basically admitted guilt from a legal sense, and aviation lawyers know where the deep pockets are. And then, from the polar perspective, how many of us really want to drive home looking through the darkness caused by the shadows from billions of marker balls place on the wires around us?

 

So what are your thoughts from a your/pilot's perspective? - young and old, new and experienced....all are welcome and respected.

 

If you smack a wire and happen to die - or maybe not, and possibly other people die or get hurt or lose business due to service outage as a result, what do you think a family of the pilot, those on-board and others who were collateral "victims" would/should do, as it will likely be determined that PIC failure will be probable cause (tho NTSB can't be admitted in trial). Is it fair game to go after the Pilot's family? Utility? Operator? Airframe Manufacturer? Government? Nobody? Everybody? Somebody? Don't Care?

 

Help wind this up and let's see where it goes. Maybe this will make me think again about pursuing a terminal degree focused on this.

 

 

-WATCH FOR THE PATTERNS, WATCH FOR THE WIRES-

 

Last year I did a study for a presentation at a Part 142 school. Instead of looking at wire accidents as a whole, I looked at the differences between airplane and helicopter wire accidents. I found some glaring differences. First of all over a 10 year period, 70% of the wire strike accidents happened to airplanes. Of those airplane wire strike accidents only 26% occurred to airplanes doing low level work. On the Helicopter side, 42% of the wire strike accidents happened to helicopters doing low level work. As you can see and majority of airplanes and helicopters that had wire strikes were not doing activities that required them to stay in the low level environment.

 

The utility companies do not mark wires to ensure pilot safety. After all, a vast majority of wires are well within a couple hundred feet of the ground. The power companies mark the wires because they see a potential risk to the wires due to location. The wires are marked to protect electrical service to the utilities' customers. Keep in mind that almost half of the wires hit were marked. As for suing the utility companies after a wire strike, you can, however I don't believe you would have much success.

 

As for training, based on what I have seen in both the helicopter and airplane communities, very little wire strike avoidance training is given. Most helicopter trainees are basically told to go over the towers. And that is just about it. As for the airplane community, it is almost never mentioned.

 

What all pilots need to be taught is what to look for. Part of the problem is they generally are looking for the wrong thing. They are looking for the wires. By the time you see them, it is too late. They need to be looking for the signs of possible wires. Right of ways, buildings, clearings, etc.

Edited April 15, 2011 by rick1128

[r22butters]

We know the dangers, and accept them, every time we climb into the cockpit!

 

Avoiding wires is our responsibility!

 

If you feel your avoidance training was inadequate,...seek additional training!

 

To my surviving family; Don't sue any company! As with smoking,...I knew the risks!

 

Go after an operator saying the pilot was "overworked", and "underrested", or the flight school saying he was "inadequately trained", well... how could you prove that!? And even if you did, it is still OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO NOT FLY INTO, OR CONTINUE THROUGH, AN AREA WE ARE UNCERTAIN ABOUT, OR IF WE ARE TIRED! And don't sue the pilot's family, that's just asinine!

Edited April 15, 2011 by r22butters

[500F]

14 CFR 77.17 regulates marking of objects in airspace. To make a long story short only objects over 500 feet high are required to be marked and lit. An advisory circular (AC7460-1K) RECCOMENDS objects over 200 feet or objects that pose an extraordinary hazard to airmen be marked. This wire was between the two from what I hear.

 

I have seen and taken part in at 4 lawsuits where wires were struck and the utility was sued, all of which were below 200'. In all cases the plaintiff lost or it was settled out of court. Unless the wire is on a runway approach path you dont have a case if its below 200 feet. I've seen plaintiffs lawyers try to pull, "It posed an extraordinary hazard to airmen ...Because it was over a river(The term "Navigable Waterway" is used in the AC but not defined there but it is in 40CFR), because it was over a road, because it was in class E airspace, because it was over a field where crop dusters fly etc. None of them hold much water. This one however was over 200 feet and unparked from what I read, so there may be a case.

 

However,It'll never get that far because the pilot was on OTC cold medicine. Whether it was a factor or not it will protect the power company. Quite frankly the first rule of any kind of patrol work is the pilot flies the AC and doesnt get involved in the patrol (In this case deer counting). According to what Ive read the pilot had been scolded for doing that in the past. IMO (without knowing all the facts) that is the most likely cause because it is often the case in patrol accidents. IMO Training, on flying in the wire environment would have made a difference if the pilot took it seriously.

 

Frankly THe pilot bears ultimate responsibility here. Just like texting and driving usually the cause is multitasking beyond ones abilities. If its under 200ft, leave the utility alone. If they start marking lines below 200' they set a precident and have to mark every line on their system. I suppose there may be some level of negligence on the part of the operator if no training (formal or otherwise) has been provided, but its not manditory so I wouldnt go there. The governemnt? nah, they cont drop the threshold to 100' It would cost the power companies billions and would that cost would utimately be borne by anyone who pays their electric bill. WSPS work some of the time and IMO are good for machines in some industries such as fire-fighting, but they dont advertise that they can cut any wire, they too are not responsible for the accident.

 

In short, If you hit a wire, Own up to it.

[Goldy]

Steven- First I was really impressed when you showed me your thesis. Since we had to go run off and fly in the 206 (wasn't that a bitch!) I didnt get a chance to ask you what some of your conclusions were....

 

Just 2 weeks ago I was flying in a common practice area riverbed. I've flown along there since the late 1980's, longer story short, when I took off I suddenly spotted a tower to my left, I pulled hard right and climbed and then saw the wire. It wasnt a large tower, it was a nice shade of brown and hard to see in the trees, but it was there just the same.

 

While I would like to see more wires marked in the local passes, the only real reason I am flying low enough to worry about them is due to all the fixed wing traffic coming over my head. If I could get all of them to fly at 3500 thru Newhall Pass, then I wouldnt need to be at 300AGL (another story).

 

Anyway, if I hit a wire, it's all on me. It's our job to see and avoid, to inspect and clear an area before we make an approach. In my case, I aborted my original cleared spot due to it being pretty muddy and so I extended down another 100 yards in the riverbed. That put me just that much closer to that wire, and that tower was behind me when I cleared the area I originally intended to land at. Of course, this is all happening 1/2 mile from another location where a fatal wire strike occurred years ago, so your senses should already be working overtime.

 

Here is a site if you ever want a copy of SCE's free video training.

 

http://www.sce.com/Safety/worker/helicopter-pilot-safety.htm

[r22butters]

Here is a site if you ever want a copy of SCE's free video training

 

You wouldn't happen to know why clicking on the video, takes you to the HAI website (instead of just playing the video)?

 

Do you have to be a member?

[500F]

Looks like they removed the link, it was up there for a year.

heres one from youtube if you can deal with subtitles.

Surviving the wire environment