CFIs whos looking for work?

[Velocity173]

Yeah, they won't budge on the hours. Asked our hiring manager once for a friend who didn't meet the 500 hr PC hrs. She said nope, can't dot it. They're strict with their insurance requirements.

 

If it was about money then I wouldn't be working with two guys who made high 6 figure salary just to give it up to work EMS. It's about living where you want, not being gone 6 mths out of the year, going home every night, doing a job that's rewarding. Finally, I'd say it's the easiest job I've ever had. 90 % of the flying is low stress, no interference from management, no BS outside of flying, get paid to sleep.

 

I have a friend who left another EMS company after 7 yrs to fly S-76s in the Gulf. He was ready to go back to IFR and twin engine flying. For him that fits his needs. For me, can't stand dual pilot, don't like living in the Gulf or being gone 6 mths out of the year. Flying over water all day and living on a platform would get old. Works for some, but right now I don't need the extra cash.

 

I can see maybe in 10 yrs leaving this to go onto something else. It would still have to be in an area that I would enjoy living in though.

[Flying Pig]

Im still curious what the experience level was for these CFIs who moved on to EMS? Did they go from 1500hrs in R22s to doing EMS in a B3 or what?

[Velocity173]

Im still curious what the experience level was for these CFIs who moved on to EMS? Did they go from 1500hrs in R22s to doing EMS in a B3 or what?

Yeah sounds odd. I don't necessarily agree with the 1,000 hr turbine requirement but I think all EMS companies have it.

[dankaten]

Yeah sounds odd. I don't necessarily agree with the 1,000 hr turbine requirement but I think all EMS companies have it.

Actually about six months ago the average was 500 hours turbine. Then about three or four months ago the EMS people had a conference and when they came away from the conference they raised the minimum to 1000 hours.

My question is if you can't fill the seats with a 500 hour minimum, how exactly are you going to fill them by raising the minimum to 1000? I don't think a lot of thought went in to that one. The talk is that a 1000 hour minimum makes for a safer pilot. I really don't think 500 hundred more hours makes a much safer pilot (In my opinion). There are still a few companies out there that are using the 500 hundred minimum.

Edited April 10, 2013 by dankaten

[Velocity173]

Actually about six months ago the average was 500 hours turbine. Then about three or four months ago the EMS people had a conference and when they came away from the conference they raised the minimum to 1000 hours.

My question is if you can't fill the seats with a 500 hour minimum, how exactly are you going to fill them by raising the minimum to 1000? I don't think a lot of thought went in to that one. The talk is that a 1000 hour minimum makes for a safer pilot. I really don't think 500 hundred more hours makes a much safer pilot (In my opinion). There are still a few companies out there that are using the 500 hundred minimum.

Yeah I agree. I don't hold much weight in a turbine hour requirement. Takes a few hours of flying, a class on turbine engines and you're good. Now total hours and PIC hours, that's always debatable. At what cutoff do we believe minimum hours and experience is necessary to fly patients in the back? For EMS companies and the ones that insure them, they have a set minimum that they believe is necessary. Generally 2,000 TT and 1,000 PIC.

[Flying Pig]

Keep in mind Im not an EMS pilot, but I perform very similar missions. So here goes........ I like long posts

 

I think it would just depend on what you were doing during those extra 500hrs. As an employer there are going be some lessons learned in those 1000hrs that were learned on someone else's dime. Not saying you have to torch an engine to have an "Aww ----" moment, but since turbines are used for work far more than pistons, you probably have some decent real world experience by the time you hit 1000hrs in a turbine. The quality of that experience and whether or not it matches the mission of that employer would have to be determined on an applicant by applicant basis.

 

Not to say that just because you fly a turbine makes you a better pilot. Its hopefully the type of work you are doing with that type of helicopter that is making you a better pilot. By the time you come to EMS you know your limits. And Im not talking about VFR weather minimums. I mean your physical and psychological limits. I found, and still find that flying in the mountains, for me, is more psychological than performance based. We had a mission in the Sierras hovering up a water fall looking for a body that went over the falls at 3000ft. I know the helo will do it because I watched one of our pilots do it the day prior. I went back after to do it for training, and the ol' brain was telling me "Ummmm..... no you are not ready for this." Had nothing to do with performance. The helicopter had more power than it knew what to do with. It was the terrain that scared the crap out of me. So for the next couple weeks, I went back and slowly worked my way in to it until it was comfortable. Still freakin weird...... but doable now. I was well past 500 turbine by the time that came around.

So what kind of EMS operation are you looking at I think would be the key. Are you flying at sea level, VFR hospital to hospital or are you flying EMS in Alaska single pilot on NVGs? 500hrs turbine airport to airport may be fine. Another operator, depending on their types of missions and locations, that may not cut it.

 

I know plenty of pilots with 1000-1500hrs total time who can fly circles around a pilot with 3000hrs all because of the types of flying they do and the decisions they have to make on a daily basis. So quality not quantity, but the bar has to be set somewhere. There are jobs in the non-flying world that don't care how awesome you are until you have a Bachelors degree in any subject. Same with aviation. We dont care how sweet you are, you gotta have 1000hrs turbine PIC first, then convince us that you are the pilot for the job. So then take someone like myself. I have about 1100hrs total time RW with 1000hrs in the 500E and about 450 of that is NVG, 200+ mountain, pushing 900 x-ctry 500+ night. Ill have about 1900hrs turbine and 3500TT (fixed and RW, dual CFI) before any EMS operator would even look at me because they generally want 2000 total helicopter. Would 500hrs in an R22 as a new CFI have made me a better pilot? I dont think so, but thats probably debatable with some people also.

 

So all that being said, it takes me back to my initial question. What was the experience level of these CFIs who were picked up by this EMS company that had them begging for more? Unless Im misunderstanding, and these CFIs were NVG/mountain instructors teaching in Bell 407s who moved on to the EMS world. But a high time R22 instructor being scooped up by an EMS operator? If they met the 500 or 1000hrs turbine requirement, then I would say they were probably more working pilots who moonlighted as CFIs as part of their job description. But coming on and saying "My school just sent 3 CFIs to a major EMS operator" sounds like it leaves out some details.

Edited April 10, 2013 by Flying Pig

[mrjibbs]

I agree, FlyingPig hit it dead on.

 

In my opinion, turbine time, in a single light machine, means nothing. A good friend of mine just finished a 3 year contract in Alaska, all in a 44. All of it was utility, slinging, bush, awful weather, etc etc. He is an amazing pilot and will make a 5000 hour single engine straight and level point a to b flyer look like a new student, and he has less than 50 hours of turbine time. But because he doesnt have that 1000 hours turbine time he must not know what he's doing right?! HA!

 

As FlyingPig said, its quality of quantity. Its not the amount of turbine hours you have, its the operational aspect of what you've been doing. Its your mindset. What kind of decisions do you make? How do you handle customer pressure? Are you going to push bad weather and make poor decisions because someone is dying in the back and you have no control over their condition?

 

There are reasons why the EMS industry is suffering right now. This year alone there has been WAY to many accidents, and a large majority of them are in the EMS sector. And yes its all insurance driven. But the bean counters making those standards have no clue about what they mean. You can put a 200 hour pilot in a 206 and have him fly a one hour circuit 2000 times, and he'll meet your minimums. But does that mean he'll have the operational experience to make safe decisions to go in at night, and land along a highway surrounded by powerlines that you can barely or not at all see? Does that mean he can safely navigate unfamiliar terrain in less than poor to terrible weather? I dont think so.

 

Now dont misread that and say I am talking bad about EMS pilots because I am not, alot of people in my network are very skilled and experienced EMS pilots, I am just curious as well as FlyingPig as to what level of experience these CFI's have for the EMS company to be "begging" for more. That info still hasnt been provided...

 

I think there needs to be some major adjustments on how the hiring process goes, it is not as simple as oh I have XX hours so I am good to go! There is much, much more to it.

[dankaten]

Well I believe at this point I will have to go with an earlier post that said it was a job post without having to pay for one.

Simply put someone needs a couple of CFI's and didn't want to pay for posting a job request.

 

[Goldy]

Well I believe at this point I will have to go with an earlier post that said it was a job post without having to pay for one.

Simply put someone needs a couple of CFI's and didn't want to pay for posting a job request.

Maybe a bit off topic, but most guys/gals end up flying the ditch for 12-18 months to get the 1000 hrs of turbine time and then move to EMS/ENG. At least the ones I know all did!