head sets

[klasmartin]

Does anybody know the difference between David Clark H10-13XL and H10-56XL ENC headsets? The only thing I've been able to find was on the helicoptersonly.com site. They advertise the 13XL's for 627.00 and the 56XL's for 676.00 with the only difference being the passive noise reduction, 22db vs 27db. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

[justfly]

Does anybody know the difference between David Clark H10-13XL and H10-56XL ENC headsets? The only thing I've been able to find was on the helicoptersonly.com site. They advertise the 13XL's for 627.00 and the 56XL's for 676.00 with the only difference being the passive noise reduction, 22db vs 27db. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

David Clark Aviation Headsets

[klasmartin]

David Clark Aviation Headsets

 

Thanks Jf, that's the first place I looked but didn't see any major differences. Was hoping someone had personal experience with the two headsets.

[flingwing206]

Thanks Jf, that's the first place I looked but didn't see any major differences. Was hoping someone had personal experience with the two headsets.

The biggest difference is in the ear domes - the 56 has thicker (heavier) plastic. The speaker/ENC modules are slightly different as well. The mic is the same unit.

 

Bottom line on the difference, the 56's have better passive and active NR versus the 13's. If you want the best that DC has to offer for helicopter pilots, go with the 56.

[Gomer Pylot]

The 56 has deeper domes. I have both the 60 & 56, and have used the 13s. DC gave me a new set of passive 56s, because I needed more room in the domes for my ears. There was no more room, even though the domes were deeper, but I modified them and got enough room. I still prefer the ones I built from Model 18 hearing protectors, but the 56 is much better than the 13, IMO. I just put the 60s the company gave me in the closet, still in the box, and have worn the 56s for maybe 10 hours. I keep them as a backup set. Remember, the decibel scale is logarithmic, so 4 dB means 40 times the reduction in noise. My Halos from Quiet Technologies give 32 dB NRR, depending on the earplugs I use.

[HH60Pilot]

Remember, the decibel scale is logarithmic, so 4 dB means 40 times the reduction in noise. My Halos from Quiet Technologies give 32 dB NRR, depending on the earplugs I use.

 

You are correct is stating that the dB scale is logarithmic, however, a 3dB increase is a doubling of power and a 10dB increase is a multiple of 10 of the original power (sound). So, a 4dB in noise reduction would mean it would reduce that noise a little more than half.

 

You can read more about it by clicking on the following link, What is a decibel?

 

Doug

[Gomer Pylot]

What I get for relying on memory in my old age.

[klasmartin]

Thanks for the info! Pretty much made up my mind to buy the 56HXL's.

 

Regards

[HH60Pilot]

To all you headset people,

 

Could you tell me why you chose to go with a headset over a helmet? I am debating which to buy at this point and am interested to find out why you guys with headsets don't wear helmets. From what I hear from the helmet guys they won't fly without one.

Thanks,

 

Jake

 

As stated above, some cockpits are too small to wear a helmet in. I'd prefer wearing my helmet, but I got tired of bumping my head against the rotorbrake handle in the R22. Plus, some operators do not allow their pilots to wear helmets as it gives the paying passenger an uneasy feeling if the pilot has on his brain bucket and they only get a headset to wear.

 

Doug

[Seth USMC]

After GomerPylot brought up the "Clarity Aloft" headset a few posts up I started looking into them. If they do everything that is claimed they look to be an excellent way to go versus your standard davidson clark. I am to begin flight training in July with Precision and would appreciate any opinions or experience that anyone here has had with Clarity Aloft and if they would make a good headset to begin training with. Thank you.

 

-Seth

[Gomer Pylot]

I haven't tried the Clarity Aloft, but I have the Halo from Quiet Technologies, which looks like just about the same thing without the mp3/cellphone interface, and about half the price. I've used it for a couple of hitches now, and I'm loving it. The earplugs which come with it aren't that great, but I make my own from regular foam earplugs and some plastic tubing, inserting the tubing into the earplug and connecting it to the earphones. It's not hard to do and doesn't take that long. The Clarity Aloft plugs might be better, but they're certainly more expensive.

[Seth USMC]

I haven't tried the Clarity Aloft, but I have the Halo from Quiet Technologies, which looks like just about the same thing without the mp3/cellphone interface, and about half the price. I've used it for a couple of hitches now, and I'm loving it. The earplugs which come with it aren't that great, but I make my own from regular foam earplugs and some plastic tubing, inserting the tubing into the earplug and connecting it to the earphones. It's not hard to do and doesn't take that long. The Clarity Aloft plugs might be better, but they're certainly more expensive.

 

 

Thanks for the added info. I think I will give the Clarity Aloft a shot!

 

-Seth

[xolo_flight]

Just before taking my solo stage earlier this week, i bought myself a pair of David Clark H10-56 HXL's. They work incredibly well even with the doors off. One note however, my examiners's headset didnt work in conjunction with the R22 hotmic feature. But my instructor has them as well and the flights are so much more comfortable.

 

You dont need a helmet until your employer makes you wear one.

[HH60Pilot]

You dont need a helmet until your employer makes you wear one.

 

xolo_flight

 

As a former Air Force Safety Officer, I beg to differ with you on that statement. There are many fliers alive today because they were wearing proper safety equipment, which includes a helmet. You are very early in your flying career and I would suggest that you take a different stance on the wearing of safety equipment.

 

It would be a shame if you were to survive an accident and spend the rest of your life in a vegetative state because of brain damage sustained in the accident. Brain damage that could have been easily avoided if you were only wearing a helmet.

 

Maybe if you contact the Air Force Safety Center at Kirtland AFB, NM or the US Army Aeromedical Research Labratory at Ft Rucker, AL they could provide you with some statistical information that just might change your mind. After all, if wearing a helmet wasn't worth the cost, then why does all branches of the military require the aircrews (especially helicopter aircrew) to wear them? And before I get flooded with emails and PM's about aircrews in the heavies, I know that most of them are not required to wear helmets.

 

Just me two-cents.

 

Doug

[Witch]

Hey Doug,

 

What do you think of a motorcycle helmet with comms installed? And don't tell West Coaster.

 

Later

 

Oh, you've got to tell me where you were stationed.

[HH60Pilot]

Hey Doug,

 

What do you think of a motorcycle helmet with comms installed? And don't tell West Coaster.

 

Later

 

Oh, you've got to tell me where you were stationed.

 

Well, I ride motorcycles and have comm gear installed in my helmet for the stereo and intercom on the Goldwing. While it is great on the bike, I'm not certain about using it in the helicopter. I think that the dimensions, and weight, of the motorcycle helmet would make it a bit cumbersome if you spend much time at all in the air. Plus, most motorcycle helmets restrict more of your peripheral vision as compared to aviation helmets. Aviation helmets are generally smaller and lighter while still designed to absorb the forces of impact. But, I must say that I'd stack my Shoei RF-700 up against any of my aviation helmets for crashworthiness.

 

My list of assignments is as follows:

 

Fresno ANGB, Fresno, CA

Lackland AFB, San Antonio, TX

Lowry AFB, Denver, CO

Tyndall AFB, Panama City, FL

McGhee Tyson ANGB, Knoxville, TN

Mather AFB, Rancho Cordova, CA

Holloman AFB, Alamogordo, NM

Kingsley Field ANGB, Klamath Falls, OR

Ft Rucker, Ozark, AL

Kirtland AFB, Albuquerque, NM

NAS Moffett Field, Mountain View, CA

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (undisclosed location )

Kuwait (another undisclosed location )

HQ ARPC, Denver, CO

 

I've also spend a great deal of time (months) TDY to the following locations:

George AFB, Victorville, CA

NAS Pensacola, Pensacola, FL

 

Hope that answers your question.

 

Doug

[Gomer Pylot]

Military pilots get shot at, or at least are expected to be. The chances of a crash are much, much higher in the military. Civilian helicopters do crash, but usually less catastrophically and at a lower rate. In any activity, one needs to weigh risk against benefits and costs, and most civilian pilots feel that the risks of not wearing a helmet are far outweighed by the high costs and few benefits. If your cost/benefit analysis requires a helmet, I have no quarrel with your wearing one, but your analysis has nothing to do with me or anyone else.

[HH60Pilot]

Military pilots get shot at, or at least are expected to be. The chances of a crash are much, much higher in the military. Civilian helicopters do crash, but usually less catastrophically and at a lower rate. In any activity, one needs to weigh risk against benefits and costs, and most civilian pilots feel that the risks of not wearing a helmet are far outweighed by the high costs and few benefits. If your cost/benefit analysis requires a helmet, I have no quarrel with your wearing one, but your analysis has nothing to do with me or anyone else.

 

I wouldn't feel all safe and snug in your helicopter because it has an N number and isn't painted OD green. Looking at the NTSB website for accidents in 2005, there were 195 reported helicopter accidents in the US, 23 of them fatal with a total of 30 fatalities. I'll do some research and post a comparison of military vs. civilian accident rates when I get them.

 

As for your risk vs. cost and benefit statement, a Gentex single visor, ANR equipped SPH-5 can be purchased for about the same cost as the Bose X headset. For the same price, I'd rather protect my entire head, than just my ears.

 

Just my two-cents.

 

Doug

 

BTW...An accident doesn't have to be catastrophic for you to sustain brain damage, or receive a fatal blow to the head.

[Witch]

Fresno ANGB, Fresno, CA

Lackland AFB, San Antonio, TX

Lowry AFB, Denver, CO

Tyndall AFB, Panama City, FL

McGhee Tyson ANGB, Knoxville, TN

Mather AFB, Rancho Cordova, CA

Holloman AFB, Alamogordo, NM

Kingsley Field ANGB, Klamath Falls, OR

Ft Rucker, Ozark, AL

Kirtland AFB, Albuquerque, NM

NAS Moffett Field, Mountain View, CA

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (undisclosed location )

Kuwait (another undisclosed location )

HQ ARPC, Denver, CO

 

I've also spend a great deal of time (months) TDY to the following locations:

George AFB, Victorville, CA

NAS Pensacola, Pensacola, FL

 

Hope that answers your question.

 

Doug

 

I've been to Lackland too.

 

Also:

Chanute

Hill

Travis

Davis-Monthan

Wuschheim

And last , but not least, Minot.

Oh, Mountain Home and Yokota, three weeks each TDY.

 

Later

[xolo_flight]

xolo_flight

 

As a former Air Force Safety Officer, I beg to differ with you on that statement. There are many fliers alive today because they were wearing proper safety equipment, which includes a helmet. You are very early in your flying career and I would suggest that you take a different stance on the wearing of safety equipment.

 

It would be a shame if you were to survive an accident and spend the rest of your life in a vegetative state because of brain damage sustained in the accident. Brain damage that could have been easily avoided if you were only wearing a helmet.

 

Maybe if you contact the Air Force Safety Center at Kirtland AFB, NM or the US Army Aeromedical Research Labratory at Ft Rucker, AL they could provide you with some statistical information that just might change your mind. After all, if wearing a helmet wasn't worth the cost, then why does all branches of the military require the aircrews (especially helicopter aircrew) to wear them? And before I get flooded with emails and PM's about aircrews in the heavies, I know that most of them are not required to wear helmets.

 

Just me two-cents.

 

Doug

 

 

I'll take your advice Doug, but "to each their own"...this helmet topic has seen its fair share in the forums. Everyone will just have to agree or disagree on that issue. There are pros and cons on either side of the issue. Ultimatly its up to the PIC.

Military is a bit different from civil aviation. There are a bunch of ex military rotorheads online here to back you up on that idea. The helmets are pushed by the insurance companies and its the military.....your going to get shot at and the occurance of having to do full down autos or have catastrophic engine failure is statistically greater than flying around the farmer fields. ( although some lady was shooting bottle rockets at a chopper this past week...)

[HH60Pilot]

I'll take your advice Doug, but "to each their own"...this helmet topic has seen its fair share in the forums. Everyone will just have to agree or disagree on that issue. There are pros and cons on either side of the issue. Ultimatly its up to the PIC.

Military is a bit different from civil aviation. There are a bunch of ex military rotorheads online here to back you up on that idea. The helmets are pushed by the insurance companies and its the military.....your going to get shot at and the occurance of having to do full down autos or have catastrophic engine failure is statistically greater than flying around the farmer fields. ( although some lady was shooting bottle rockets at a chopper this past week...)

 

Yes, to each his own, and I still wear a helmet on my motorcycle even in states that don't require them.

 

The military requires and the insurance companies push for helmets because statistics show that they save lives, reduce injuries, and save money. This applies to both motorcycles and helicopters.

 

I happen to love flying helicopters and I understand that there is an inherent risk in doing so. But, I also know that I can help mitigate these risks by doing certain things, and one of those happens to be wearing a helmet whenever I can. Plus, I can't think of one con of wearing a helmet.

 

And, don't think that getting out of the training environment and into a commercial operation makes you any safer. Of the 23 fatal accidents in the US in 2005, 19 were in turbine powered helicopters, and no fatal accidents occured during a training flight.

 

Just something to think about.

 

Doug

 

Something else that just came to mind. In my 27 years of being a pilot, I've lost more than 30 friends in aircraft accidents, not all of them were military, and not one of them was in combat.

[Gomer Pylot]

Yes, there are lots of accidents, and lots of fatalities. But the number of fatal accidents in which it has been definitely shown that a helmet would have prevented the deaths is very small. I personally know of none, and most of the NTSB reports don't show any benefits.

 

This is a religious issue, and I doubt anyone is going to change anyone else's religion, and trying to imose one's religion on others is never acceptable. Wear your helmet, I'll wear my headset, and let's forget about the argument.

[HH60Pilot]

Yes, there are lots of accidents, and lots of fatalities. But the number of fatal accidents in which it has been definitely shown that a helmet would have prevented the deaths is very small. I personally know of none, and most of the NTSB reports don't show any benefits.

 

This is a religious issue, and I doubt anyone is going to change anyone else's religion, and trying to imose one's religion on others is never acceptable. Wear your helmet, I'll wear my headset, and let's forget about the argument.

 

The number may be very small, but I have a feeling that the number is way too big for the families of those that died who would have lived if they were wearing a helmet.

 

If you had a crystal ball that would let you see each flight before you departed. One day it showed you getting in an accident in which you died because you weren't wearing a helmet. Would you find a helmet to wear before the flight? The reality is that we don't have this crystal ball, so we don't know before we takeoff if that will be the flight that a helmet will save our life.

 

Call this a religious issue, call it a hot button issue, call it what you might...but I will never understand the logic of leaving something on the ground that could save your life in the air.

 

Doug

[klasmartin]

So I've decided to buy the DC h10-56xl headset. Just got one more question. Has anyone used the heli to GA adapter ($40) and if so, how did it work? Or would it be better to buy the dedicated david clark GA cord ($100) that plugs directly into the enc batt. module?

 

Thanks in advance!

[Gomer Pylot]

So I've decided to buy the DC h10-56xl headset. Just got one more question. Has anyone used the heli to GA adapter ($40) and if so, how did it work? Or would it be better to buy the dedicated david clark GA cord ($100) that plugs directly into the enc batt. module?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

If you intend to fly both fixed wing and helicopters, you're going to have to use an adapter, one way or the other. You can get a helicopter headset, and use an adapter to GA, or you can get a GA cord on the headset and use a helicopter adapter. I think the helicopter cord, with GA adapter has a slight advantage, but it depends a lot on which you think you'll be flying the most. Either adapter works OK.