Torn between R22 vs sweitzer career

[Ty P]

Hi there,

 

I'm new to this forum. I'm starting training very shortly for my helicopter career. I've read numerous posts, websites etc, and I'm really torn on which way to go, R22 training or sweitzer training. I have two schools that I'm trying to decide on here in Boise Idaho. One has r22 training Done by Silver State Helicopters. The other is sweitzer training done by Aviation specialties which has good reviews from the people I've spoken with.

 

I've read all this info on Silver state. I wish they had more positives than all the negatives. That really concerns me, plus I'm concerned about the higher flooding of the market on the R22 CFI's that will be approaching in the next 1 to 2 years via Silver State's training output.

 

I already have my Private fixed wing license, so I'm not complete new to aviation, but I am to rotor craft. I've hear Silver state has a more slower approach, there would be 40 people starting in my class. The negative is I DO NOT like them getting the 69.9K after only 10 months when I won't even be done with the course yet! That really freaks me out. Plus, 40 to 50 pilots and only 4 r22's and 1 r44 doesnt' seem like a lot of availablitly.

 

The other School, 6 people in a class, and I pay as I go (which I like better) also it is a 141 school versus Silver State as a part 61 school, and they're training for the equivalant is approx $62K.

 

The trauma part.... it seems like there are more jobs out there for the R22/R44 than the sweitzer. So how do you make the right choice? All My hours will would all be in a sweitzer not a Robby. I've read sooooo much information in these forums it's really hard to way out all the good from the bad.

 

I've actually been so concerned about this I've done demo flights in both (where I've actually flown the heli). I have to say, the sweitzer is really nice. The R22 wasn't too bad either, but definately more touchy it felt like.

 

If anyone has a serious, strong, helpful reccomendation, I'm eagerly looking forward to it.

 

Please Help!!!!!!

 

Thank you very much

 

TP

[nbit]

Why don't you just do through the commercial in the R22, then do the CFI, instrument, & CFII in the 300C/CBi? Seems that would put you in the ballpark to be insurable in both. Also, if you do the instrument training after the CFI, and the CFII after the instrument, the CFII will only take a couple of hours to complete, since you'll be fresh out of an instrument checkride already. Then if you still need hours for insurance, fly off the hours in the machine you have been hired in, or decide to be in, or the one you aren't insured in - your choice... The hours remaining will be minimal then. Just an idea. I know a few people that have done it that way that are insurable in both. Some may disagree, but Schweizer 300 instrument trainers seem easier to come by than R22 instrument trainers...

[DeltaMikeCharlie]

I have two schools that I'm trying to decide on here in Boise Idaho. One has r22 training Done by Silver State Helicopters. The other is sweitzer training done by Aviation specialties which has good reviews from the people I've spoken with.

 

 

IMO...Avoid SSH, If there was another school with the r22 than I would suggest as nibt.

[jehh]

Why force yourself to pick only one?

 

Do your private and CFI training in the 300CB, and your commercial and instrument training in the R-22. Then you can teach in either.

 

You already know the problems with Silver State, you spelled them out yourself.

[joker]

Well, it seems to me like your mind is half made up already.

 

Listen to any gut feelings you have about schools. If you don't like the thought of paying up front, than listen to that! If you don't like the thought of a large class size, then listen to that!

 

Personally (schools being equal), I would choose the Schweizer! I never had so much fun flying as when I was in the H269!

 

In fact a very wise way of doing things would be to do half your training in a Schweizer, then complete the rest in a R22. That way, you're prepared for both markets. Do maybe the instrument stuff in the R22, then leave yourself a few hours at the end of your training to do some SFAR training in the R22 too.

 

As for whether you are reducing your chances of getting hired if you have Schweizer training, Flingwing may come on here and tell you (from first had knowledge as a hirer) that the otherside of the coin is that there are much fewer Schweizer pilots around, so any good Schweizer pilots will be well placed for a Schweizer job! There's two sides to every coin.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Joker

[Tiger Mike]

I believe that the S-300 is a far surperiour helicopter in which to train. Especially in the summer or if you weigh more than a super model after she has thrown up her one meal a day.

 

I tried both and perfer the S-300.

 

Of course with one hour in an R-22 and 12.5 in a S-300CBi, I might not know what I am talking about.

[Scarab]

I fly both the 22 and the 300, did initial 14 hrs in 22, balance of private in a 300. 300 is much more forgiving up front. 44 Raven is very nice with hydralics. 22 is a little cheaper to train in. Rarely do you hear cheap and helicopter in the same sentence. I much prefer the 22 now that I fly on my own, lighter, faster, throttle management, better range, lower fuel comsumption, less expensive to maintain. I believe the 22 is more challenging to teach in because they are so light.

 

Free advice is allways worth what you paid for it.

[Ty P]

I fly both the 22 and the 300, did initial 14 hrs in 22, balance of private in a 300. 300 is much more forgiving up front. 44 Raven is very nice with hydralics. 22 is a little cheaper to train in. Rarely do you hear cheap and helicopter in the same sentence. I much prefer the 22 now that I fly on my own, lighter, faster, throttle management, better range, lower fuel comsumption, less expensive to maintain. I believe the 22 is more challenging to teach in because they are so light.

 

Free advice is allways worth what you paid for it.

 

 

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for their advice! It's going to be a tough choice. I wish there was a school that had both birds! Thanks everyone, I'll do my best to find the right one for me.!

 

Typ

[flingwing206]

There are a few schools who train in both, most notably Helicopter Adventures. Their program is to do the PVT in the 300CBi, the IFR in the R22, Commercial in either, CFI in the 300CBi, CFII in either. That way you will end up with anywhere from 50 to 100 hours in the R22 and the balance in the Schweizer. Just to be clear, HAI will not do initial or CFI training in the R22 as they deem it too risky (in comparison to the 300CBi).

[jehh]

To follow up with what Flingwing said, I agree with HAIs policy. Having taught in both, the R-22 makes a terrible inital training helicopter, but as Scarab points out, it makes a great helicopter to fly once you have learned the basics.

[PhotoFlyer]

I too, concur with fling. There are a number of schools that use both, HAI being the most notable. Sky Helicopters also trains in both, and is a top notch school. I am now working at a Schweitzer school, however, in retrospect, it would have been much easier to find a job if I had robbie time. It is simply a matter of numbers, there are more robbie schools, and so they hire more often.

 

--PF

[blave]

It's spelled "SCHWEIZER". Your resume will look better if this is spelled correctly.

 

 

Dave Blevins

(asking himself, "is that "spelt" or "spelled"?)

[joker]

(asking himself, "is that "spelt" or "spelled"?)

 

Well, as I speak nothing but the Queen's English, I would prefer the word 'spelled'! However, this being a forum hosted in the US and largely dominated by US, in the vernacular I must accept the use of 'spelt', even though 'spelt' to me refers to a cereal grain used in ancient times to make bread! I must also concede that by using the word 'spelt', instead of 'spelled' I would save myself two letters of typing effort. Not to mention the saving in storage costs.

 

As for Schweizer or Sweitzer, well there's no contest. Let's get it right!

 

Joker

[PhotoFlyer]

"Schweitzer..." Thats what happens wren you don't play attention too your speel chick.

[heliroo]

If you are not stuck in Boise for your training look somewhere else. Both helicopters are good for training. It mostly depends on where you want to train. The schweitzer is mostly used on the eastern states and the R22 on the western state sides. The schweiter is slower but more responsive and the R22 is fater and a little cheaper to use. If you want to get a head of the game, Van Nevel Acadamey in Florida and I think Leading Edge Rotorcraft in Nevada are offering Turbine time in a new FH1100 for the same price as most schools in Piston.

[flingwing206]

If you want to get a head of the game, Van Nevel Acadamey in Florida and I think Leading Edge Rotorcraft in Nevada are offering Turbine time in a new FH1100 for the same price as most schools in Piston.

This will not get you ahead of the game, at least not in the current job market. Until you have the 1,000 total time, the 150 - 200 hours turbine will be of very little use. Unless you have the required 150 - 200 hrs 300CBi or R22 time, the only place that will hire you is Van Nevel - if that happens, you have truely grabbed the brass ring! Otherwise it will very difficult to find the job that will bring you to the 1,000 hour mark - being a CFI.

 

Since most of the big operators - tours or GOM - do not require turbine time, you'd be better off spending the extra $$ on the IFR and CFII - that will net much larger dividends.

[Rotorookie]

Have you checked out Silverhawk Aviation in Caldwell? Very close to Boise, nice website, don't know much more than that.

 

Cheers,

Rookie.

[heliroo]

The only reason you need 1000 hours is for insurance because people dont have turbine time only piston time. Am I wrong?

[flingwing206]

The only reason you need 1000 hours is for insurance because people dont have turbine time only piston time. Am I wrong?

Yep. Insurance companies look at hours, operators look at experience. Insurance companies have the last word.

[jehh]

That, and in most of the Ops Manuals the GOM guys use list a requirement for 1,000 hours helicopter time.

 

At least PHI and Era do, don't know for a fact about the others. And since those are FAA approved documents, that means that 1,000 hours is the fewest number of hours they can hire someone to a VFR slot, regardless of insurance or turbine time.