sell my WHAaaaaaT ?!?

June 30, 2006

I have seen a few ads these past few days of people looking to buy: logbooks, data plates, bill of sales,,,,and other helicopter records ! Heard stories one even has "garage" full of log books & data plates ! Nothing hurts this helicopter industy worse than a crash----especially when it kills an innocent person by someone who is "in it for the buck"

67november · July 1, 2006

especially when it kills an innocent person by someone who is "in it for the buck"

THOSE people who are in it for a buck have been around for a long time. it's up to us to make sure we weed these people out into the open

nothing worse than a bottem feeder looking to make a few buck at the expense of our lives

delorean · July 1, 2006

Dataplates are kind of interesting......because, basically that's all you really need to build an aircraft around them. You could buy a wrecked R22 and totally rebuilt it from NEW or servicable parts if you had a dataplate. And if you think about it, it's not that much more work than what you do on a 4400-hr overhaul.

Kinda like my DeLorean. There's enough 25 year old *brand new* parts to build an entire car, however, it would pass DOT standards these days. So, DMC in TX buys the VIN plates and dataplates off wrecked d's and rebuilds and sells "brand new 1981" DeLoreans from parts for about $50,000. Nothing wrong with that......

Now if the company you are posting about is looking for the logbooks and bills of sale and NOT the aircraft or parts they're attached to, that's definitely fishy.

July 1, 2006

Delorean, yes i know you can rebuild an aircraft around a data plate,, there was much controversy over doing so years ago by the FAA. Some crash-damaged aircraft even had their data plates & logs confiscated by the FAA. My 300 was crash damaged when i bought it from the insurance company, i rebuilt it with its own data plate tho. Switching data plates & logs tho? Not in MY book no. Here is a link to the ads, i emailed & called both the guy w/ the 47 & the other w/ the OH-6. I notice that the guy w/ the 47 changed his ad to read that he is looking for a "project " now after talking w/ me. That guy w/ the OH-6 tho? man is he an arrogant son of a ! Also read FAR 45.13 & see what you think?

http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php?PHPSES...ff81b5c0067c878

July 5, 2006

I ran this question thru my local FSDO, & here is what the maintenance inspector replied to me:

Hi Rich,

Data plates are made specifically for each airframe and engine.They

are not Transferable.Do contact the FSDO near him/her and get feedback from

them as well.

Gerard

I am wondering IF i should let the lion out of the cage & propose the same question to the advertiser's FSDO?

delorean · July 5, 2006

His answer sounds like you asked to take a dataplate off a helicopter and slap it on the one next to it. Swapping dataplates vs. tearing it down to a dataplate, then rebuilding it back up from a dataplate. Know what I mean?

I think the kicker is if the aircraft is "DESTROYED" in an accident. I think that's what kills the airframe's s/n.

But if you get some privately owned helicopter that someone self-insures, chances are that even if does get reported to the FAA you can get it listed as "substantial" damage vs. "destroyed".

If you think about it.....it's really no different than taking a BRAND NEW helicopter, stripping it down to nothing and rebuilding it with all new [different] parts around the data plate. As long as you list all of the changes in the logbooks with serial #'s and time limits it's legal, right??

That's basically what RHC does [or used to] with engines. They'd toss everything but the crankcase when they do an overhaul. Same deal if you elected for the "rebuild" vs. an "overhaul". For an extra $10K-$15K, all you were getting back was the cabin structure. Everything else was brand new.

I really don't know the answer to all of this....I'm just brainstorming here. But, like anything else you ask the FAA, they are going to give you the most conservative answer possible.

July 5, 2006

My original question to the FAA was about the guy trying to buy: 1) a data plate 2) logbooks 3) bill of sale traceable back to the military ( which is what this guy is looking to do) And asked FAA's opinion.

A "destroyed" aircraft can be rebuilt just as easy as a "damaged" one---- just requires more parts, $$ & time

OK, we take this brand new aircraft, decide we want to rebuild it w/ ALL "different" parts,,,, we get it all finished & voilla ! 2 helicopters ONE data plate.

YES ! the key is to list all the changes in the logs, but? on our aircraft w/ no logs/data plate? How do we do that?

As i posted about my ship that i rebuilt, ALL of the damage & replaced parts are in my logs, all the work/NDT is documented and the original data plate is in same place as the day it left the factory in 1964. (think about this: i also had in my posession at that same time was a destroyed 1980 C model & logs and data plate, w/ pretty much enough parts from my B model that i could have "turned it into the 1980 C model") In theory i could have rebuilt the new & more expensive ship--legal? moral?--- i chose to rebuild the B...... like my nephew says about buying used cars & motorcycles "a little putty, a little paint----make it look like what it aint"

I had a customer years & years ago, he brought me this beautiful looking 1986 C model in for an annual inspection. It was a "wolf in sheeps clothing" ( was rebuilt by a company out west that went pretty much out of business after the FAA & lawyers got thru w/them, was pretty much parts from this, parts from that, a data plate here & there) Had parts on it that were not even elidgable on that S/N ship. I feel very strongly against this type of "goings-on" in the helicopter business & i am really here to protect my customer, & along the way if i save them some of their hard earned $$, aggravation, or even their life,,, good enough for me

500E · July 5, 2006

Pokey.

Well said ! you can build a ship if your Paper trail is correct but when people start to buy plates, bills, log books with no wreck this sugests the finished ship will be suspect, the Insurers \FAA should require the paper work to be marked as write off or un economic repair untill buyer has had another maintance facility check, the machine and paper trail, and only then the endorsment be removed.