Pay as You Go

slick1537 · December 20, 2006

There has been a lot of talk about saving money and paying for flight school, instead of taking a loan. I agree taking a loan is a stupid idea I wont be pursuing. However there is also a lot of talk about proficency and some say you are not flying enough if you are only flying 8 hours a month. Saving 40-60 grand up front might be a little hard. Is it advisable to work crappy jobs, save enough money for ppl, then go get it. Stop, go back to work, save enough money for your instrument, go get it, then go back to work and save for your next certificate, or is there just too much downtime inbetween? Also, do flight schools expect you to have all your certificates before many will hire you on, or can you just have a cfi, then get your training when you are not working?

67november · December 20, 2006

my plan is to do my ground school at home and buy 10 hour blocks of time for the flying side.

if i ran out of flying time before i have saved enough to buy the next block, then so be it. i'll probably have to do a little recurrent flight training before moving on but that's the price i'll pay for doing my training this way.

and when I'm done, no loan to repay

DerekM · December 20, 2006

I'm going to attempt to save up enough money so that once I start I can just do it all in one swing rather than starting and stopping....at least thats why I tell myself I have four jobs right now !

I tried the starting and stopping approach with fixed wing aircraft when I was fifteen. I was a member of Civil Air Patrol and they had a flight school one summer at Oshkosh. I went thinking that I could get my ten hours and ground school and then as soon as I turned sixteen I could finish....well I left there with a flight instuctor saying that if I was old enough he would have solo'd me. Now here it is eleven years later and I still have not solo'd for one reason or another and I think my log book shows around thirteen total hours!

fallguy · December 21, 2006

I'm in the same position. I always try to keep a few thousand $$ in the bank in case I break my leg or something, but I'm also trying to start my flying career.

I realized the pay as you go thing was holding me back, only flying once per week. My instructor noted how poorly I was flying for the first 20 min. of every lesson, and that really struck me that if I wasn't flying at least 2X per week, I might as well be throughing cash up through the rotors.

I'm still paying as I go, but I try to keep a safety stash of cash in the bank that I can use to accellerate my training if I need. I buy 10 hour blocks and try to keep a balance of ~20 hours paid for. I'm not paying interest and my school is only holding a few thousand dollars of mine vs. $40k. I also keep the balance of hours as a means of encouragement and a deterrent for quitting or taking a break from training because hey, I've got the next ~18 hrs already paid for.

The other thing I did was get a miles Credit Card. If I'm spending all this $$ I might as well get a free trip out of the deal...I only wish I did this from the beginning!

Good Luck!

jehh · December 22, 2006

Taking out a loan is not right for everyone, however I wouldn't call it "stupid".

Millions of people borrow money to pay for schools of all kinds, including college. It makes sense because with a better education, you can earn a higher paycheck.

If flying helicopters is something you want to do, and you're in good health (i.e. not likely to lose your medical soon), then taking out a loan can get your training done quickly and efficiently.

The trick is to not take 15 years to repay the loan... Once working as a commercial helicopter pilot, make extra payments towards the loan. The balance goes down much quicker and you pay it off a whole lot sooner.

The pay as you go plan is ok, so long as you can afford to pay for a rating in a 3 to 5 month timeframe, flying 2 to 3 times a week.

Anything less than twice a week is just spinning your wheels, in my humble opinion...

slick1537 · December 22, 2006

Ok maybe its not stupid, but you are paying so many extra tens of thousand dollars and not making a whole lot of money while you are an instructor. I am one of those people who pay off my credit cards in full every month. I don't do interest .

fry · December 22, 2006

Taking out a loan is not right for everyone, however I wouldn't call it "stupid".

Millions of people borrow money to pay for schools of all kinds, including college. It makes sense because with a better education, you can earn a higher paycheck.

If flying helicopters is something you want to do, and you're in good health (i.e. not likely to lose your medical soon), then taking out a loan can get your training done quickly and efficiently.

The trick is to not take 15 years to repay the loan... Once working as a commercial helicopter pilot, make extra payments towards the loan. The balance goes down much quicker and you pay it off a whole lot sooner.

The pay as you go plan is ok, so long as you can afford to pay for a rating in a 3 to 5 month timeframe, flying 2 to 3 times a week.

Anything less than twice a week is just spinning your wheels, in my humble opinion...

That's basically a sales pitch..."No cost is too great to live your dreams". Well yeah that sounds glorious if you're doing the selling but, a buyer would be "stupid" to not weigh the risk verses the return.

Comparing an investment in a college education to $70k spent for vocational helicopter flight training is nonsense. And spare me the crap about "I know people with a four year degree who are waiting tables". By and large most of those with a college degree will have a higher income level over their careers and more flexibility in their job choices throughout their careers than vocational flight training will provide.

As for the "trick" of paying off a $70k loan early...good luck. If you're single and living cheap maybe you can muster up an extra fifty bucks or so a month to apply to the principal on top of the $500 or more payment but it's still going to be a long time making those payments. And if you have a family, forget it. There is no additional disposable income available for principal payments from the paycheck you'll be getting.

And finally, about risk. What's the chances of landing that slave-wages CFI job after you finish training? There is a phrase in investing, "The greater fool theory". That's the belief that no matter how much you overpay for a stock there will always be someone who will buy it from you at a higher price. Those who believed this were crushed by the dot.com collapse. Folks looking at training who are being told by sales people that the supply of new students entering the field will provide their future CFI job may be subscribing to their own "greater fool theory". If interest rates go up or the economy turns down that supply of new students could disappear in a flash.

james28 · December 22, 2006

so which college are you recruiting for fry?

Edited December 22, 2006 by james28

jehh · December 24, 2006

That's basically a sales pitch..."No cost is too great to live your dreams". Well yeah that sounds glorious if you're doing the selling but, a buyer would be "stupid" to not weigh the risk verses the return.

I don't disagree that you can make more of a return on your money by going to college and becoming a doctor or lawyer, however not everything in life is about the financial equation.

I used to be in computer networking, made more money doing that than I do now, however I am much happier now. What is that happiness worth? Only I can decide for myself.

Comparing an investment in a college education to $70k spent for vocational helicopter flight training is nonsense. And spare me the crap about "I know people with a four year degree who are waiting tables". By and large most of those with a college degree will have a higher income level over their careers and more flexibility in their job choices throughout their careers than vocational flight training will provide.

I agree, and I encourage everyone to get a college education if that choice is right for them. I never did finish college, and I did just fine for myself in the computer field, until I got bored with it, then I went and found flying...

As for the "trick" of paying off a $70k loan early...good luck. If you're single and living cheap maybe you can muster up an extra fifty bucks or so a month to apply to the principal on top of the $500 or more payment but it's still going to be a long time making those payments. And if you have a family, forget it. There is no additional disposable income available for principal payments from the paycheck you'll be getting.

I disagree with you here... You do not have to work a lot of extra overtime in the Gulf these days to pay off that loan in 4 to 6 years. Some of those companies are paying $500+ a day in overtime.

As for "no additional disposable income", that depends on how you live. You can always spend every dime you make, however that is no excuse. If you were living on $35K income before you became a helicopter pilot, then you should have $15K extra once you become one, all of that can go to paying off the loan.

And finally, about risk. What's the chances of landing that slave-wages CFI job after you finish training?

Really good, if you're willing to travel to get that job. Not as good if you are not willing to leave the city you learned to fly in.

That being said, there are always opportunities for those who seek them out.

Flying isn't for everyone, however for those who want to do it, borrowing the money is one way to go. It isn't right for everyone, however calling it "stupid" is foolish.

Fly Safe!