part 135

[swissheli]

Hi,

 

I have seen some company like Air Log ask on the minimum requriement to meet the 135 PIC. I look into the FAR/AIM but I have problems to find it. Somebody can help me?

 

And what is necessary to do to be allowed to fly under the 135 part?

 

Thank's

[flyby_heli]

135.243

 

You need to also do a "checkride" with an FAA examiner.

Edited July 10, 2007 by flyby_heli

[Collective Down!]

Hi,

 

I have seen some company like Air Log ask on the minimum requriement to meet the 135 PIC. I look into the FAR/AIM but I have problems to find it. Somebody can help me?

 

And what is necessary to do to be allowed to fly under the 135 part?

 

Thank's

 

The reference is FAR 135.243

 

For VFR Pilot in Command:

• Commercial pilot certificate or ATP with category and class rating (type rating if required)
  
• 500 hours flight time as a pilot
  
• 100 hours of cross country time <---- This doesn't have to be 25 nm (or 50 for an airplane)... it just has to be point-to-point [Refer to 61.1((3)(i)]
  
• 25 hours of night cross-country
  

For IFR Pilot in Command:

• Commercial pilot certificate with category and class rating (type rating if required)
  
• Instrument rating or ATP not limited to VFR
  
• 1200 hour flight time as a pilot
  
• 500 hours of cross country time (counted the same way as VFR PIC)
  
• 100 hours of night flight time (not night cross-country unlike VFR PIC)
  
• 75 hours of actual or simulated instrument (50 of which had to take place in an aircraft)
  

And of course, hold a first or second-class medical for either VFR and IFR

 

Now here is where I need help... No where in 135.243 does it say that those required flight times are category or class specific. However, I have heard that Air Log and other GOM operators require 100% those times to be met in the helicopter. I have a cold case of beer for the person that can prove to me otherwise. I'm not trying to start another airplane-helicopter war, but I have 2300 total, only 300 in helicopter, and I will hold an ATP Helicopter within a month.... Would any GOM operator hire me with that?

[flyby_heli]

[*]100 hours of cross country time <---- This doesn't have to be 25 nm (or 50 for an airplane)... it just has to be point-to-point [Refer to 61.1((3)(i)]

 

I would cross reference with 61.1((i)(3)(v) (that is one of the exceptions for 61.1((i)(3)(i)....)

It says: "For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for any pilot certificate with a rotorcraft category....."

(: ".....that includes a point of landing that was at least a straight line distance of more than 25 nautical miles from the original point of departure"

 

Then the next exception is 61.1((3)(vi) that says: " For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for an airline transport pilot certificate (except with a rotorcraft category rating)......."

(: "That is at least a straight line distance of more than 50 NM from the original point of departure...."

 

So you need 25NM in heli and 50NM in airplanes!

Edited July 10, 2007 by flyby_heli

[JDHelicopterPilot]

Quoted from 135.243:

 

 

(1) Holds at least a commercial pilot certificate with appropriate category and class ratings and, if required, an appropriate type rating for that aircraft; and

 

(2) Has had at least 500 hours time as a pilot, including at least 100 hours of cross-country flight time, at least 25 hours of which were at night; and

 

 

So, no they won't take you yet. You are short on helicopter hours. Besides from what I hear they won't take anyone with less than 1,000 PIC helicopter or very close to it.

 

 

I'll take my beer now.

 

 

 

JD

Edited July 10, 2007 by JDHelicopterPilot

[flyby_heli]

Quoted from 135.243:

(1) Holds at least a commercial pilot certificate with appropriate category and class ratings and, if required, an appropriate type rating for that aircraft; and

This just means that you have to have a commercial Rotorcraft (category) Helicopter (class) certificate to be a helicopter 135 pilot.

 

(2) Has had at least 500 hours time as a pilot, including at least 100 hours of cross-country flight time, at least 25 hours of which were at night; and

Keywords: "....as a pilot....."

They don't say time in a helicopter anywhere, just as a pilot. As far as my interpretation goes this could be in any category and class as long as you, as mentioned above, hold the commercial certificate in the category and class for the aircraft you are doing your checkride in when you do it.

Now what the companies want I couldn't tell you. If I would have to guess I would say you probably need to at least double up those 300 hours.

 

Just my opinion, anyone actually heard from the FAA on this one?

Edited July 10, 2007 by flyby_heli

[SToL]

Just my opinion, anyone actually heard from the FAA on this one?

 

It seems you guys are confusing individual company requirements with FAA requirements.

 

Don't forget, the FAA requirements are simply the minimum required by the FAA to obtain a specific rating.

 

There are very few companies out there who will hire you at the FAA minimums. Most GOM operators want 1000 hours, and everyone else wants 1500 or in some cases, much more. The fact that you have an ATP with 300+ hours isn't going to satisfy them in 'most' cases. But hey, you never know. Right place, right time... give it a shot.

 

Good luck

[Collective Down!]

(1) Holds at least a commercial pilot certificate with appropriate category and class ratings and, if required, an appropriate type rating for that aircraft; and

 

(2) Has had at least 500 hours time as a pilot, including at least 100 hours of cross-country flight time, at least 25 hours of which were at night; and

 

 

So, no they won't take you yet. You are short on helicopter hours. Besides from what I hear they won't take anyone with less than 1,000 PIC helicopter or very close to it.

 

 

I'll take my beer now.

 

Put the mug down.... That wasn't my question. I DO in fact meet the FAA requirements to be a 135 VFR and IFR captain. I do hold a Commercial-helicopter certificate, and I do have those hours (just not all of them in a helicopter). Those hour requirements listed in 135.243 are not category and/or class specific. I'm 100.000% positive because I already fly for a 135 operator, and our FAA principal operations inspector (who does both helicopter and airplane air carrier certificates) has told me that I DO meet the 135 requirments for Part 135 VFR and IFR helicopter.

 

The free beer was for the person who could tell me which operator would actually hire me at this point.

 

 

 

I would cross reference with 61.1((i)(3)(v) (that is one of the exceptions for 61.1((i)(3)(i)....)

It says: "For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for any pilot certificate with a rotorcraft category....."

(: ".....that includes a point of landing that was at least a straight line distance of more than 25 nautical miles from the original point of departure"

 

Then the next exception is 61.1((3)(vi) that says: " For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for an airline transport pilot certificate (except with a rotorcraft category rating)......."

(: "That is at least a straight line distance of more than 50 NM from the original point of departure...."

 

So you need 25NM in heli and 50NM in airplanes!

 

Trust me... taking off at one point and landing at another is "cross-country" for 135 requirements.

 

The reference you mentioned was to meet the aeronautical experience requirements for a pilot certificate... you even quoted it. 135 crewmember isn't a pilot certificate, rating, or endorsement... it's a priveledge... "Operating priviledge," similar to when you take a checkride with an FAA inspector to become a 141 chief or assistant chief flight instructor. In the case of a 135 checkride (whether it be a 135.293, 135.297, or 135.299), the inspector or check airmain fills out an 8410-3 form, and that specifies what your operating priveleges are. Now I don't log it in my logbook as cross country unless it's 25 or 50 as appropriate, because it's easier to add the point to point instead of subtract it for the purpose of 135 stuff (my electronic logbook keeps track of it all for me anyway).

 

Here's another twist for ya though flyby_heli.... For ATP, you do need to cover that distance (25 or 50), but you don't have to land. You could takeoff in an airplane, fly 100 nautical miles, turn around and come back and credit that time towards the requirements of your ATP, but in that circumstance the time can't be counted toward your 135 crewmember qualification because you didn't depart one airport and land at another.

[flyby_heli]

Oooops.....Sorry, I mixed up ATP and 135 stuff on that one. For the ATP you need 25 and 50NM, not for the 135.

My bad!

 

But you do need to land 25NM away in a helicopter for your ATP:

61.1((3)(v)(: "That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight line distance of more than 25 nautical miles from the original point of departure"

Edited July 10, 2007 by flyby_heli

[Gomer Pylot]

Collective, you are correct about the times - the FAA requirement is total pilot time, not helicopter time. However, I can't name a company which will hire you with the times you quoted, so I don't get a beer. It's possible you could be hired, but the only way to find out is to talk to the companies. It may be possible, but I wouldn't bet a beer either way.

[Flip]

I had a buddy who tried the same thing. Had a bunch of fixed wing time, ATP and all that. But only a few hundred heli time. He applied at Airlog after seeing the same job ad and they told him to call back when he had close to 1000 hours helicopter time. I don't know why they post that opening for 135 minimums when they won't hire you there.

[swissheli]

Thank you for your help guys.

[gmsemel]

I was in the same boat back in 1983, no dice no how. Come back with 1000 hours PIC helicopter and we may talk to you or not. You want some helicopter time under your belt, flying in the gulf has its hazards, I know of a few that got hired with less than 1000 hours, one guy had a little under 700 hours and the company threw him to the wolves, a hard contract and he had his lunch handed to him, me to, and I know a 12K+ pilot that got run off the same deal. You live and learn and move on. Maybe PHI would talk to your about an SIC job on a medium for a while. But I would not hold my breath on it. Known to do so from time to time.

[Collective Down!]

I had a buddy who tried the same thing. Had a bunch of fixed wing time, ATP and all that. But only a few hundred heli time. He applied at Airlog after seeing the same job ad and they told him to call back when he had close to 1000 hours helicopter time. I don't know why they post that opening for 135 minimums when they won't hire you there.

 

I was in the same boat back in 1983, no dice no how. Come back with 1000 hours PIC helicopter and we may talk to you or not. You want some helicopter time under your belt, flying in the gulf has its hazards, I know of a few that got hired with less than 1000 hours, one guy had a little under 700 hours and the company threw him to the wolves, a hard contract and he had his lunch handed to him, me to, and I know a 12K+ pilot that got run off the same deal. You live and learn and move on. Maybe PHI would talk to your about an SIC job on a medium for a while. But I would not hold my breath on it. Known to do so from time to time.

 

It's not what I wanted to hear, but it's what I needed to know... Thank you guys.

 

Nothing worth accomplishing is ever easy.

Edited July 11, 2007 by Collective Down!