PhotoFlyer Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 Here is a question for all you regulation lovers. 91.207 says that only airplanes are required to have an ELT, and specifies inspections for ELTs. SOOOOOOO, if your helicopter DOES have an ELT and it is NOT required, do you have to comply with the inspections specified in 91.207? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67november Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 ok now I'm gonna be a smart arse and say YES if you want to stay in compliance with the manufacturers requirement for airworthyness.I've not gotten that far into the regs to confirm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathanmay Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 ok now I'm gonna be a smart arse and say YES if you want to stay in compliance with the manufacturers requirement for airworthyness.I've not gotten that far into the regs to confirm. so the answer to my question is manufactuers ADs. thanks, i was unsure about 91.207 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witch Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 How about PLB's or portable ELT's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 so the answer to my question is manufactuers ADs. thanks, i was unsure about 91.207 I would re-think that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 How about PLB's or portable ELT's? I'm definitely thinking of getting one. I guess everyone should know by now that the 121.5 ELT will no longer be monitored by satellite next year? So, even if you have an ELT in your aircraft, if its not a 406 EPIRB, it may not do you much good. Goldy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67november Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 I would re-think that. hey goldy, care to expand on that, as I said just answering in jist, I don't have all of the regs in front of me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbit Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 91.207(d) defines the inspection requirements... 91.207(d) also states "Each emergency locator transmitter required by paragraph (a) of this section must be inspected within 12 calendar months after the last inspection"...Referring back: 91.207(a) states: "Except as provided in paragraphs (e) and (f) of this section, no person may operate a U.S.-registered civil airplane unless..." Would make one believe there is not a necessity of an ELT inspection for a helicopter, at least unless it were spelled out elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67november Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 as I said IF there was a manufacture requirement to inspect the ELT to comply with the manufactures requirements for airworthyness, otherwise I don't see anything that would "require" an ELT to be current in a rotorcraft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 as I said IF there was a manufacture requirement to inspect the ELT to comply with the manufactures requirements for airworthyness, otherwise I don't see anything that would "require" an ELT to be current in a rotorcraft. You are correct. HEre is what I was getting at. AD's have nothing to do with it. Airworthiness Directives have nothing to do with ELT's. Complying with the certificate means having those instruments and equipment required in the POH. Look in the R22 POH, Chapter 7 under ELT ( Optional). There it is..optional not required. The funny part about the regs is if you do have one installed (like I do) you don't need to maintain it under this section. You would think it would read " If installed....not If required" Oh well, who am I ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 (edited) SOOOOOOO, if your helicopter DOES have an ELT and it is NOT required, do you have to comply with the inspections specified in 91.207? The requirements of 91.207(d) are not required to be done. (d) Each emergency locator transmitter required by paragraph (a) of this section must be inspected within 12 calendar months after the last inspection for--(1) Proper installation;(2) Battery corrosion;(3) Operation of the controls and crash sensor; and(4) The presence of a sufficient signal radiated from its antenna. HOWEVER, If an ELT is fitted as an approved modification then it is part of the 'aircraft' and is required to be airworthy. Going by a general definition of 'airworthy' (in condition for safe flight and in compliance with all regulatory devices - stc, ads etc..etc..), then I would say, yes. An ELT that is fitted must comply with manufacturer's inspection requirements. In that case: Sec. 91.7Civil aircraft airworthiness. (a) No person may operate a civil aircraft unless it is in an airworthy condition. I may be totally wrong here. However, that is just a safe way of looking at it. You can't go wrong if you cover yourself by complying with the inspections. It is true the Cospas-Sarsat are discontinuing relaying 121.5/243 signals on 1 Feb 2009. Joker Edited January 10, 2008 by joker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 If an ELT is fitted as an approved modification then it is part of the 'aircraft' and is required to be airworthy. Going by a general definition of 'airworthy' (in condition for safe flight and in compliance with all regulatory devices - stc, ads etc..etc..), Yepp Joker, I know that section. I just thought it strange the way the 91.207 is written. OK, I'm messing with you here, but where did you get your definition of "airworthy" from ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 (edited) Goldy, We are out of sync with our posts. I have re-edited my post. I hadn't read the question properly and noticed that it was specifically asking about 91.207(d) requirements. These are not required - I agree; question answered. However, any manufacturers requirements are required, by the arguement I put above. (91.7). As for the definition of 'airworthy' I'll have to find that again. Found it. FAA Order 8130.2F Chapter 1-9 (My emphasis). 9. INTERPRETATION OF THE TERM "AIRWORTHY" FOR U.S. TYPE-CERTIFICATEDAIRCRAFT. The term "airworthy" is not defined in Title 49, United States Code (49 U.S.C.), or in14 CFR; however, a clear understanding of its meaning is essential for use in the agency's airworthinesscertification program. Below is a summary of the conditions necessary for the issuance of anairworthiness certificate. A review of case law relating to airworthiness reveals two conditions that mustbe met for an aircraft to be considered "airworthy." 49 U.S.C. § 44704© and 14 CFR § 21.183(a), (,and (c ) state that the two conditions necessary for issuance of an airworthiness certificate:a. The aircraft must conform to its TC. Conformity to type design is considered attained when theaircraft configuration and the components installed are consistent with the drawings, specifications,and other data that are part of the TC, which includes any supplemental type certificate (STC) andfield approved alterations incorporated into the aircraft.b. The aircraft must be in a condition for safe operation. This refers to the condition of theaircraft relative to wear and deterioration, for example, skin corrosion, window delamination/crazing,fluid leaks, and tire wear.NOTE: If one or both of these conditions are not met, the aircraft would beconsidered unairworthy. Aircraft that have not been issued a TC must meet therequirements of paragraph 9b above. Joker Edited January 10, 2008 by joker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Joker- Nice pull. I know the term "airworthy" is not defined in the FAR's..which was my point. I have heard of, but never seen the actual FAA order that you found. Goldy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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