NWPDK9 Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 I am not a pilot yet and have aspirations of starting my training within the next 12 or so months. My question; Is it possible to log time in an ex-military helicopter? Someone has told me that time in an "experimental exhibition category' aircraft would not qualify to log time in. I see alot of retired helicopters for sale, most notably a 1972 OH-58A for sale on eBay for 235K. A few of my fixed wing friends have told me that a good way to obtain your license is to buy a plane, get your ratings in it then sell it. If that is true for fixed wing, would it be the same for a helicopter? If you can find 4 partners to go in on a ship as this OH-58 I would imagine you could log some turbine time alot cheaper than paying to use someone else's ship? I really dont know all that much about this topic and as I stated earlier, I am not a pilot...just a buff right now. I apologize if my question seems stupid... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick1128 Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 I am not a pilot yet and have aspirations of starting my training within the next 12 or so months. My question; Is it possible to log time in an ex-military helicopter? Someone has told me that time in an "experimental exhibition category' aircraft would not qualify to log time in. I see alot of retired helicopters for sale, most notably a 1972 OH-58A for sale on eBay for 235K. A few of my fixed wing friends have told me that a good way to obtain your license is to buy a plane, get your ratings in it then sell it. If that is true for fixed wing, would it be the same for a helicopter? If you can find 4 partners to go in on a ship as this OH-58 I would imagine you could log some turbine time alot cheaper than paying to use someone else's ship? I really dont know all that much about this topic and as I stated earlier, I am not a pilot...just a buff right now. I apologize if my question seems stupid... As I have been told and understand the regs on this matter, you can log time in a restricted category ship. The problem is that the use of such a ship is after all Restricted. Plus the FAA is cracking down on ex-military ships. Plus the insurance will be a major issue. What you might want to consider as an alternative is to get three or so buddies together and get a 269A or B. A whole lot less money, good parts availability plus being able to use it for instruction and giving rides to your friends and family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChopperGuy Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 As I have been told and understand the regs on this matter, you can log time in a restricted category ship. The problem is that the use of such a ship is after all Restricted. Plus the FAA is cracking down on ex-military ships. Plus the insurance will be a major issue. What you might want to consider as an alternative is to get three or so buddies together and get a 269A or B. A whole lot less money, good parts availability plus being able to use it for instruction and giving rides to your friends and family. We fly 2 mil surp OH-58s for the State here. I run the program and have attended several training classes for public use aviation program mamagers sponsored by ALEA and other groups. Now I'm no expert and take internet advice for what you pay for it, but the view on this topic does vary from FSDO to FSDO. I have documentation from a couple that does confilct with one another. Generally, you are not supposed to be able to use time in mil surp aircraft to obtain new to you ratings or certificates. Training is supposed to be for previously certified pilots as necessary to comply with currency requirements, etc. When these aircraft first hit the civilian world, word from the FAA was NO training was allowed in them. Common sense did prevail and they realized training in aircraft actually operated was necessary and had to be logged for currency, BFR, etc. That being said, I know of govt agencies training new helo pilots in mil surp aircraft and even having them take certification check rides with DPEs in them. More power to them, we can't get away with that here. Like I said, the FAA is all over the board with this issue and most FSDO Inspectors don't understand non-certified mil surp aircraft rules and regs any more than they understand operations under public use. I agree with the advice mentioned above, get a group together and buy a good used ship without the problems associated with training in mil surp aircraft. You'll probably be way ahead and the aircraft will have a much larger potential for resale in the long run. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svtcobra66 Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Unless you're a municipality, you won't be able to get insurance as students wanting to train in a Jetranger, and if you somehow could, it would be ridiculously expensive. Maybe liability only, but forget about hull coverage, which means you're risking the full value of the helicopter, and remember that most accidents happen during training. You'd be far better off going in on a Schweizer 300 or R22. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apiaguy Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 (edited) Just to set the record straight.... You can log ALL time in ex-military/experimental/restricted category aircraft. What chopper guy is talking about is ex-military ships that have NO airworthiness certificate.... they just started flying them straight from the military. These aircraft would be illegal to fly unless you are flying for "public service" operations.... ie.. government. (military, police, etc...) And the FSDO's may have an issue with them being used for normal pilot certification since you don't even need a pilots license to fly those aircraft under those operations and they don't have any airworthiness certificate. Many ex-military aircraft have been put into the "experimental category" and can be flown AND logged hours in by a private owner.Some ex-military aircraft are eligible for a "standard airworthiness certificate"... those are golden. Insurance is a whole nutha' game. Edited February 21, 2008 by apiaguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWPDK9 Posted February 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Thanks for all the responses. I am much clearer now on the topic. Like I said, I have not started any training yet but plan to within the year. With the limited choices of flight schools in my area(Orange County NY), purchasing a partnership in a ship might be my best choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick1128 Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Just to set the record straight.... You can log ALL time in ex-military/experimental/restricted category aircraft. What chopper guy is talking about is ex-military ships that have NO airworthiness certificate.... they just started flying them straight from the military. These aircraft would be illegal to fly unless you are flying for "public service" operations.... ie.. government. (military, police, etc...) And the FSDO's may have an issue with them being used for normal pilot certification since you don't even need a pilots license to fly those aircraft under those operations and they don't have any airworthiness certificate. Many ex-military aircraft have been put into the "experimental category" and can be flown AND logged hours in by a private owner.Some ex-military aircraft are eligible for a "standard airworthiness certificate"... those are golden. Insurance is a whole nutha' game. At one time an operator could put an ex-military aircraft on a restricted category and use it commercial. Many of the helicopters used in fire fighting and logging are certified that way. However, it is my understanding that the FAA is now becoming very difficult about putting ex-military aircraft in any category, except experimental. And that includes aircraft that formerly able to be put in a standard category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apiaguy Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 care to explain further which aircraft the faa are having trouble with that were formerly being put standard category? If it is eligible for standard category you still can go that way.... you just have to have your ducks in a row and all the correct paperwork... years ago they didn't look too close at some of the required paperwork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apiaguy Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 (edited) lets see... hiller 12's, bell 47's, hughes 269, 369.....any others that were type certified and used by the military? (besides current production Lakota etc..) Edited February 22, 2008 by apiaguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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