What is a good trainer?

[Ztirnivek]

what is a good helicopter to learn in?

 

Bell 47

300c/269c

r22

 

honest opinions about them please? This will help me decide on the school i choose.

[apiaguy]

All are "good helicopters" to train in.

I suppose you could fly all 3 and ask yourself which you would like to teach others in. Although there are very few opportunities to teach in the bell 47 these days.

The "easiest" to learn would be the bell 47, then the 300, then the R22.

They are all helicopters and all have their quirks... one negative is the extra training requirements of training in the R22.

[BOATFIXERGUY]

Here's a good thread that's 5 pages long which should also help you:

 

http://helicopterforum.verticalreference.com/helicopterfor...?showtopic=3816

[rick1128]

As the previous posters have stated each has its own pluses and minuses. I have flown all three plus the Enstrom 28A. Since there are very few schools that use the Enstrom, I will not throw it into this mix. There are very few BH47's out there any either, likewise UH12's. In some ways the 47 is a little too easy to fly. It is quite forgiving as helicopters go. And in some ways can make upgrading into more advanced helicopters more difficult. Moving from the BH47 to the BH206, while they share many of the same systems, are two totally different beasts. Personally I prefer the 300, it has plenty of cabin room (for two. Three can be a little tight), excellent outside visibility, good maneuverability and reasonable forgiveness of student mistakes. The R22 is a little tight and you have to watch your weight and balance. Plus the cyclic is a little odd feeling. Yes you can get used to it and if you start there, you will not know the difference until you transition to something else.

 

One argument the Robbie people always use is how fast it is. So What! For flight training everything is calculated on flight hours not distance flown. The only exception there is cross country requirements. Besides, if you wanted to go fast, you wouldn't be flying a helicopter, you'd be flying a slab wing.

 

You really need to also look carefully at each school. How do they schedule flights, maintenance, what happens if your scheduled helicopter goes down for maintenance, the instructors, the management, the airport, etc. In many ways this is much more important that the type helicopter you learn to fly in. Good instructors, maintenance and support are important.

[Ztirnivek]

thank you rick1128.

 

heres a question...

 

Pilot/Owner with about 4yrs experiance in a 269 or Pilot/Owner in a Bell 47 with 20yrs experiance?

[Galadrium]

what is a good helicopter to learn in?

 

Bell 47

300c/269c

r22

 

honest opinions about them please? This will help me decide on the school i choose.

 

Well given the 3 choices you have listed, without question the Schweizer 300. Although, the Enstrom is a very good trainer as well... probably the safest piston helicopter. I think the 300 is easier to learn to fly, but the the Enstrom is the safest. Not many flight schools train with Enstrom, however, I do operate a flight school and we use them. They tend to be popular with people that wish to purchase one later as a personal ship.

[rick1128]

thank you rick1128.

 

heres a question...

 

Pilot/Owner with about 4yrs experiance in a 269 or Pilot/Owner in a Bell 47 with 20yrs experiance?

 

Why not take a trail flight with each? Also spend a day hanging around the airport at each of their operations. How comfortable do you feel around each operation? Other factors to look at is how real is their experience? Is it personal flying just back and forth? Or have they been doing utility work or just instructing? Also just because someone has a lot of experience, doesn't mean they can teach well. Or maybe they can. Since I am probably not familiar with the people you are asking about I can not answer that question. You will need to answer that one for yourself. Besides who saids you can only fly at one place? One thing about this industry that bothers me is that each flight school seems to back bite and disrespect each other to the max.

 

You will need to take a long look at what you want to do with this certificate/rating. Just for personal enrichment? Either one is fine. For a career? Personally I would do my Commercial at least in the 300. For the CFI I would do it in the BH47. Why? One it makes you look good on autos and the second, every helicopter pilot needs to fly the 47 at least once during their career. To see where we have come from.

[Goldy]

Why not take a trail flight with each?

 

 

For the CFI I would do it in the BH47. Why? One it makes you look good on autos and the second, every helicopter pilot needs to fly the 47 at least once during their career. To see where we have come from.

 

 

What's a trail flight? Is that like a trail ride in a helicopter?

 

Just messin with ya.

 

I agree with the B47 comment. Even though I ride my mountain bike faster than I can fly the thing, there is still something about being in it...being able to look back and see your own main rotor spinning..kinda cool.

 

Now for the original poster. Why give up on the 22 so fast? With money being (almost) everything to most new pilots, I would save some money and get my first couple hundred hours in a 22, then get tired of it and move on to something else. I haven't found a 300 school yet that was the same price as a 22 school.

 

Goldy

[Ztirnivek]

Well, this is for a new career. I want to switch job fields from sitting behind a desk to sitting in a cockpit.

 

Can you learn at 2 different schools? Is that smart to do?

 

rick, you say commercail in the 300, cfi in the b47, what about to start , the private license?

 

Which of the 2 will help me with the skills ill need to make it in this industry?

[rick1128]

Well, this is for a new career. I want to switch job fields from sitting behind a desk to sitting in a cockpit.

 

Can you learn at 2 different schools? Is that smart to do?

 

rick, you say commercail in the 300, cfi in the b47, what about to start , the private license?

 

Which of the 2 will help me with the skills ill need to make it in this industry?

 

Since started as a FW pilot, I did a commercial add-on, so my experience is a little different. Each of these machines will give you skills. The BH47, especially the later ones (BH47G and better) have complex systems for a piston helicopter. In fact systems wise, it is similar to the BH206. Not the same, but similar. More schools use the 300 than the BH47, so you need to have time in that also. There are some on this forum that will preach that you must have R22 time to instruct. And while it is true that there are more schools that use R22's than 300's, one fact does remain, that schools tend to hire instructors from their grads whenever possible. They are known qualities and know the operation, aircraft, policies and procedures. So you will need to discuss this with each school.

 

Yes, you can learn from more than one school. I did my Commercial and CFI at one and my Instrument and CFII at another. There are too many instructors out there that have only flown one type of helicopter and at one school and that is all they know. As for the commercial in the 300 and the CFI in the BH47, that is what I would do personally. For the CFI you have to do full down autos. And in this the BH47 makes you look real good.

 

Since you looking at the full career path, a suggestion or two. Start reading and studying for all the ratings. Start on your CFI notebook now. It is a lot of work, but it is easier to do as little at a time. Also it will help you somewhat as you learn each maneuver. After you decide, it is going to workout, invest in a GOOD headset. Something that works well, has good support and is comfortable, as you will be wearing and using it a lot. Don't be afraid to ask questions. There are no dumb questions when you are learning. Prepare for each lesson in advance and get there early. For cross country training, I would suggest that you get an old sectional or two and using the skills you trained in for cross country planning, plan imaginary flights all over. Get used to using the computer and plotter and sectional.

[Goldy]

For the CFI you have to do full down autos. And in this the BH47 makes you look real good.

 

Being the token VR Robbie guy I just had to say that the 44 Raven will make you look just as good....really easy. I like the 47 for full downs though cause you just can't break the thing...like a tank.

[rick1128]

Being the token VR Robbie guy I just had to say that the 44 Raven will make you look just as good....really easy. I like the 47 for full downs though cause you just can't break the thing...like a tank.

 

I've done full downs in both. Personally, there is no comparison. The 47 is way out ahead in making you look good.

[Goldy]

Z- I had one more thought, and would be interested in hearing from some of the other guys. I had about 70 hours in an R22 when I first jumped in a Bell 47. It was easy, no sweat. Sure I wasnt the best B 47 pilot out there, but I was at ease flying it. At about 100 hours of R22 time, I jumped into a 300...same thing, very instinctive, take off to landing was no problem.

 

Now, for guys that trained in a 300. Could you have jumped into an R22 at 70 hours with no sweat? It's a real question....I guess what I am saying is the 22 is a bit harder to fly, I found the 300 and 47 actually easier..bigger movements, more forgiving Rotor RPM, etc.....so maybe another reason to get the 22 experience first. However, not a big enough reason to switch schools/instructors...you really just need to find the guy you are most comfortable flying with.

 

Goldy