Witch Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 I got to thinking about the preflight one day while installing an awning on a coach, and got to wondering if there was an FAR requiring to inspect the aircraft before a flight. After arriving home, and fixing a cheap TV dinner of chicken fingers and macaroni and cheese, I went in search of a reg requiring an inspection of the aircraft before flight. Alas, I found one not. Anyhow, other than 91.103, there isn't anything I could find that requires a preflight. Might one of you know of a reg somewhere? Later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67november Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 depending on the reg the bird is flying under there are pre & post flight follow ups need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heligirl03 Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 I'm gonna go with...... 91.7 ( b ) The pilot in command of a civil aircraft is responsible for determining whether that aircraft is in condition for safe flight. The pilot in command shall discontinue the flight when unairworthy mechanical, electrical, or structural conditions occur. Hmmm?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witch Posted June 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 (edited) 91.7 ( b ) The pilot in command of a civil aircraft is responsible for determining whether that aircraft is in condition for safe flight. I might have gone with that also, but it doesn't "state" that a preflight "shall" be performed. It says nothing about checklists, manufacturers recommendations, or even following a manual. A pilot may determine that an aircraft is airworthy just by looking at the gas gauge and noting the rotor is still on top. A pilot may even just do the "Kick the tires and light the fires" kind of thing and call it good. Now don't get me wrong. As far as I'n concerned, they're necessary and I'm gonna do them, but once again, where does it say it's "required"? Later Edited June 20, 2008 by Witch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brushfire21 Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 I'm gonna go with...... 91.7 ( b ) The pilot in command of a civil aircraft is responsible for determining whether that aircraft is in condition for safe flight. The pilot in command shall discontinue the flight when unairworthy mechanical, electrical, or structural conditions occur. Hmmm?? I am going to go with Heligirl on this one. I have had my nose out of the books for a bit now, but I read out of the above FAR that was posted that doing anything but sometype of preflight would be considered negligence..... my personal opinion and nothing legal per say. These days lawyers will come up with all sort sof creative things if something should happen. From a training standpoint, sometype of structured preflight should be done for several reasons prior to any flight: gets me (the student) used to being methodic and used to working from checklists; training A/C can be subjected to abuse from other student pilots/CFI's, and just plan good practice! BUT, I have also seen first hand in commerical ops / LE and Fire that at the beginning of a shift an indepth preflight is performed prior to the first flight. On consecutive flights during the same shift with the same pilot, a quick pre-flight is done (Kick the tires, ensure hatch's are closed, fuel cap on, main rotors still attached etc) is done as the pilot makes a quick circle around the A/C then jumps in and lights the fire. Now that I opened my mouth, I am ready to be flamed on this one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOATFIXERGUY Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Ok, Roger posted as I was writing, he's right.... My post is:Actually, it does say in the FAR's somewhere (don't feel like looking it up right now, I'm sure someone knows the reg by heart) that the PIC is required to do "at least a walk-around." Following the checklist is part of the Airman Decision Making process. Don't follow it on a checkride, and you get to pay the $500 for another checkride. We brought this exact question up to an FAA official at an air show we were performing at one time, and she said, "a good way to get ramped checked is to land at your favorite $1,000 hamburger joint (remember when it only cost a $100?), leave the aircraft for any length of time, and then come out and just get back in without walking around and checking the obvious (ramp damage, oil, fuel, cowls, etc)."..plus its stupid not to. As far as commercial ops, yes, you do a FULL pre-flight at the beginning of the day, then everytime you stop, fuel, whatever, a walk-around is required. Just remember, you can't fix it in the air! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOATFIXERGUY Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Reminds me of a horrible accident recently involving a highly experienced pilot. The first thing on an Enstrom pre-flight is:1. Ensure all tie-downs are removed.He did't do this....In the aircraft, on the engine start checklist the first item is:1. Seat belts fastened. Well, the aviator was in a hurry, as he was selling the helicopter. He wanted to warm it up and fly it around the patch to ensure there were no issues that would come up...the customer was on his way to buy it. Well, as you can probably guess, he failed to do items #1 on both pre-flight and engine starting checklists. As he attempted to lift off, the skids were still tied down. He was not wearing a seat belt. As he left the ground, the tie down yanked the F28 back to earth and begun to spin on the ramp around the tie down. He was ejected and died. Whats really horrible besides the fact that he died, is that the accident should not have been a fatality. The cabin was not damaged....just the blades, tail rotor, and boom. My point, even if there was no reg, shouldn't you follow a checklist anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomer Pylot Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 The pilot is responsible for insuring that the aircraft is in an airworthy condition. How (s)he does that is up to the pilot. You can do a preflight with the RFM in your hand, checking off every item, or you can just assume it's ok and go, or anything in between. It's your certificate, your life, and it's up to you to protect them. The RFM outlines the preflight, and you're supposed to follow the RFM, but exactly how you do it is up to you. Whether there is an FAR that says "The pilot will perform a preflight" is immaterial, because it's required in enough places that you will be held responsible whatever happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witch Posted June 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 So basically since it's required in other places, such as company procedures, it's not a reg in the FAR? I guess I can live with that. But still, the way some people talk and knowing the way lawyers think, I'm still wary of not having seen anything in the FAR's that state the pilot shall follow some sort of checklist or something prior to flight. Just my observation. I mean the FAR's have a lot of other things in there that seem, to me at least, to be common sense. Maybe something isn't clicking. It's lke knowing the law concerning carrying a concealed weapon and what the layman knows about it. For example, in Oregon, I can carry a concealed loaded handgun into a school. Both Federal and State law allow this. However those who have no idea about the law think it's illegal, period. Same with any Government building, even if it has a "No Weapons" sign posted at the door. Even at the airport, but I'm not going there. Anyhow, it's a little frustrating when you're told that the FAR's are the "law" that one must follow, but there seems to be no requirement to perform a task. End of line. Later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witch Posted June 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 (edited) Maybe I need a vacation Later Edited June 23, 2008 by Witch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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