Why No Business Ideas & Topics?

[RisePilot]

On this forum there are a number of “gimme a job” threads; however, I never see a “I’m thinking of starting a helicopter business” thread.

I’m not so naïve as to think there is a hidden entrepreneur in everyone, but the multiple threads where a poster states they have 15K/50K/80K to spend and ask advice on what they should do with their money – the possibilities/choices never seem to involve starting a business.

Very successful business have started with far less initial funding. If you’re paid a salary from an employer (and not executive mgmt or board member), no matter what the pay – you’re someone’s bitch. I’m curious why there seems to be a dearth of pilots without any real business aspirations?

Heli pilot pay is not great and many of the posters are looking at airlines. However, in the long run I don’t expect that to be a winner either as I view airline pilots as effectively overpaid (not the kids doing grunt work at the regionals for 24k; but the senior international pilots who expect to be paid like they’re investment bankers).

Running your own business can be both challenging and rewarding, but as an owner your flying could actually be enjoyable; which is why we're all drawn to helicopters in the first instance - whether professional or private pilots.

 

[TomPPL]

I agree totally, my own personal opinion is, start a business, hone it, maximise profits, do your own thing and don't be anybody's bitch.

 

Then....Spend part of the income on training, flying and actually enjoying it. I've read many many times on this forum that once you start to depend on flying to generate a living, it soon starts to get tedious...

 

Not everyones bag I suppose but that's how I prefer to roll..

[Eric Hunt]

It's a lot easier on the stress levels to fly somebody else's machine and let them fret about the insurance costs/excess levels, fuel costs, impending maintenance, advertising, compliance, and the myriad other things that the helicopter business owner has to worry about.

 

Most posters here are just wannabes, with little prospect of a job after training, and even less prospect of paying off the training debts in a foreseeable time.

 

I run my own business, but it sure as heck isn't aviation. If it eats, floats, f***s or flies, never own it, just rent it as required.

[Hand_Grenade_Pilot]

On this forum there are a number of gimme a job threads; however, I never see a Im thinking of starting a helicopter business thread.

 

Im not so naïve as to think there is a hidden entrepreneur in everyone, but the multiple threads where a poster states they have 15K/50K/80K to spend and ask advice on what they should do with their money the possibilities/choices never seem to involve starting a business.

 

Very successful business have started with far less initial funding. If youre paid a salary from an employer (and not executive mgmt or board member), no matter what the pay youre someones bitch. Im curious why there seems to be a dearth of pilots without any real business aspirations?

 

Heli pilot pay is not great and many of the posters are looking at airlines. However, in the long run I dont expect that to be a winner either as I view airline pilots as effectively overpaid (not the kids doing grunt work at the regionals for 24k; but the senior international pilots who expect to be paid like theyre investment bankers).

 

Running your own business can be both challenging and rewarding, but as an owner your flying could actually be enjoyable; which is why we're all drawn to helicopters in the first instance - whether professional or private pilots.

 

You dont seem to understand how difficult it is to start an aviation business from nothing. While not impossible, there are many other industries that offer larger profit margins with far less liability and risk.

 

Many of the mom-and-pop helicopter operators in this industry are time bombs waiting to explode. I recently read the NTSB report from the B206 that crashed flying a tour on Oahu. Drive shaft failure from negligence on the mechanics part (who was also the owner). One ship, one pilot rag tag operation with the owner doing maintenance and using a non-A&P apprentice to do large parts of it.... unsupervised.

 

While large corporations are not immune to negligence, they at least have the resources to keep up with high demand. But when you have no reserve personnel, limited parts and liquid assets, only one aircraft and business loans to pay, things can escalate and collapse very quickly. And unlike a restaurant or retail store, people often die when an aviation business starts to fail.

 

If you knew many people in this industry, you would know that many of us aspire to own our own business. But we are smart enough to know that there are easier ways to make money than aviation. For many of us, its just a means to an end. Personally, I plan to own a bed and breakfast one day. But in the mean time, helicopter aviation is something I am still passionate about and provides me with a high quality of life; so I am not in any rush to leave. And if I happen to lose my medical one day or the industry becomes largely automated, I will pursue my other ambition.

 

Also, as Eric said, those complaining about not finding work are wannabes who couldnt hack it. As of present, there are many helicopter jobs available right now.

[r22butters]

I would like to get an R22 and use it to deliver donuts to remote areas of Kauai.

 

,...anyone want to bankroll it?

[Hand_Grenade_Pilot]

I would like to get an R22 and use it to deliver donuts to remote areas of Kauai.

 

,...anyone want to bankroll it?

You will have plenty of business from the hippies in Kalalau. Just have to modify your business model to accept pot and food stamps as payment. Then again... when they hear a helicopter landing and disturbing the feng-shui, they might just start throwing rocks at you.

[chris pochari]

You dont seem to understand how difficult it is to start an aviation business from nothing. While not impossible, there are many other industries that offer larger profit margins with far less liability and risk.

 

Many of the mom-and-pop helicopter operators in this industry are time bombs waiting to explode. I recently read the NTSB report from the B206 that crashed flying a tour on Oahu. Drive shaft failure from negligence on the mechanics part (who was also the owner). One ship, one pilot rag tag operation with the owner doing maintenance and using a non-A&P apprentice to do large parts of it.... unsupervised.

 

While large corporations are not immune to negligence, they at least have the resources to keep up with high demand. But when you have no reserve personnel, limited parts and liquid assets, only one aircraft and business loans to pay, things can escalate and collapse very quickly. And unlike a restaurant or retail store, people often die when an aviation business starts to fail.

 

If you knew many people in this industry, you would know that many of us aspire to own our own business. But we are smart enough to know that there are easier ways to make money than aviation. For many of us, its just a means to an end. Personally, I plan to own a bed and breakfast one day. But in the mean time, helicopter aviation is something I am still passionate about and provides me with a high quality of life; so I am not in any rush to leave. And if I happen to lose my medical one day or the industry becomes largely automated, I will pursue my other ambition.

 

Also, as Eric said, those complaining about not finding work are wannabes who couldnt hack it. As of present, there are many helicopter jobs available right now.

is there evidence that large operators are safer than small operators? Canada, New Zealand and Australia are full of small helicopter companies and I don't think they have a higher accident rate than the U.S where the industry is more consolidated.

[avbug]

 

Heli pilot pay is not great and many of the posters are looking at airlines. However, in the long run I don’t expect that to be a winner either as I view airline pilots as effectively overpaid (not the kids doing grunt work at the regionals for 24k; but the senior international pilots who expect to be paid like they’re investment bankers).

 

 

 

Your opinion of the airlines isn't based on experience, is it?

 

Most of those seeking work as a burgeoning helicopter pilot have barely managed to finance their flight training, let alone float the capital to start a business.

 

It's one thing to have fifty grand to invest in flight training, but another matter to start an aviation business. Fifty grand won't open the door.

[Hand_Grenade_Pilot]

is there evidence that large operators are safer than small operators? Canada, New Zealand and Australia are full of small helicopter companies and I don't think they have a higher accident rate than the U.S where the industry is more consolidated.

 

I am not aware of any official study comparing the accident rate per flight hour of 'micro' aviation businesses with one aircraft/pilot versus larger ones. What I've encountered over the past 7 years leads me to believe that the former is more accident prone.

 

My perspective is solely based on what I have encountered in the US. And by no means am I saying that every small company is dangerous; my favorite (former) employer to date is literally a mom-and-pop helicopter business. They started with one helicopter and him flying. Over the course of 50 years they built the business into one of the most respected and highly recognized outfits in the region. When I worked there, they had 4 helicopters and 6 pilots; still a small business compared to the HEMS, offshore and tour corporations. But they run the business the right way. Employees are treated like family. They had an abundance of parts on hand (including big ticket items like blades and a RR 250-C20). They own all of the aircraft, a pristine hangar and some extremely valuable commercial property. Maintenance was top notch. The general manager was very approachable and always had my back. Truly can't say enough positive things about them. No doubt it was tough for them starting out, but they had the integrity, knowledge and experience to do things the right way. Many new business owners don't.

 

The companies I am talking about are the ones that are barely scraping by. Whether the owner(s) are good people who are in way over their head, or the owner is just flat out criminal and cuts corners to save every dollar possible. One of my previous jobs was flying an R44 for a company that was spiraling down the drain (unbeknownst to me when I first accepted the job). It ended with only having one helicopter in service (which was leased) and me being the only pilot. Knowing that if you call out sick, or any unscheduled maintenance comes up, will cut a failing company's revenue completely off is a miserable situation to be in. I promised myself I would never work for a company like that again.

 

Before, during, and after that R44 gig I've encountered very small aviation companies that were nightmares (both fixed wing and helicopter). 1-2 aircraft outfits running on credit and minimal oversight from the FAA because they are so small. And my experience is not unique. I have talked with quite a few pilots (in the US) that got their start with questionable operators whom they will never work for again (assuming they are even still in business).

 

Because of that, I am very skeptical of the underdog aviation companies. Working for a well established company with lots of assets gives me peace of mind. It's one of the things I really like about flying in the GoM.

 

If I call out sick, a reserve pilot can always fill in. If a maintenance problem comes up, there is always a spare aircraft available, even if it means flying a replacement out to me offshore. If we lose a contract, it won't bankrupt the company. The offshore business can be volatile (and layoffs do happen) but it is nothing compared to a struggling rag-tag outfit.

[chris pochari]

 

I am not aware of any official study comparing the accident rate per flight hour of 'micro' aviation businesses with one aircraft/pilot versus larger ones. What I've encountered over the past 7 years leads me to believe that the former is more accident prone.

 

My perspective is solely based on what I have encountered in the US. And by no means am I saying that every small company is dangerous; my favorite (former) employer to date is literally a mom-and-pop helicopter business. They started with one helicopter and him flying. Over the course of 50 years they built the business into one of the most respected and highly recognized outfits in the region. When I worked there, they had 4 helicopters and 6 pilots; still a small business compared to the HEMS, offshore and tour corporations. But they run the business the right way. Employees are treated like family. They had an abundance of parts on hand (including big ticket items like blades and a RR 250-C20). They own all of the aircraft, a pristine hangar and some extremely valuable commercial property. Maintenance was top notch. The general manager was very approachable and always had my back. Truly can't say enough positive things about them. No doubt it was tough for them starting out, but they had the integrity, knowledge and experience to do things the right way. Many new business owners don't.

 

The companies I am talking about are the ones that are barely scraping by. Whether the owner(s) are good people who are in way over their head, or the owner is just flat out criminal and cuts corners to save every dollar possible. One of my previous jobs was flying an R44 for a company that was spiraling down the drain (unbeknownst to me when I first accepted the job). It ended with only having one helicopter in service (which was leased) and me being the only pilot. Knowing that if you call out sick, or any unscheduled maintenance comes up, will cut a failing company's revenue completely off is a miserable situation to be in. I promised myself I would never work for a company like that again.

 

Before, during, and after that R44 gig I've encountered very small aviation companies that were nightmares (both fixed wing and helicopter). 1-2 aircraft outfits running on credit and minimal oversight from the FAA because they are so small. And my experience is not unique. I have talked with quite a few pilots (in the US) that got their start with questionable operators whom they will never work for again (assuming they are even still in business).

 

Because of that, I am very skeptical of the underdog aviation companies. Working for a well established company with lots of assets gives me peace of mind. It's one of the things I really like about flying in the GoM.

 

If I call out sick, a reserve pilot can always fill in. If a maintenance problem comes up, there is always a spare aircraft available, even if it means flying a replacement out to me offshore. If we lose a contract, it won't bankrupt the company. The offshore business can be volatile (and layoffs do happen) but it is nothing compared to a struggling rag-tag outfit.

Thanks for the info, I'm sure you're right about some of these small operators but don't you think the reason most helicopter operators are small is because the industry as a whole is so niche? If you exclude EMS, Police and offshore you might have 2-3 commercial turbine helicopters in every major city, most of these are run by tiny 1-2 helicopter companies. I think the main reason you still see so many small companies in the helicopter industry is simply because the industry is so small compared to other areas of aviation. I'll just use my state as an example, here in northern cali you have one utility operator with 4 helicopters, if you go further north to Sashta CA there's a small touring company with a 2 aircraft. In the bay area there's a small charter company with 2 A109's, than there's a touring company in SF with 3 helicopters. All of these companies are "mom and pop" they will never become big simply because there isn't enough demand for their services. Just my .2 cents observing the industry here in Cali.