Transitions

[simon1969]

Hello again everyone,

Well another lesson another fine mess i get myself into.

i'd really just like to hear from all who have gone before and can advise me on how best to master this manouver. my instructor say's he is happy with my progress so far,but i dont take well to compliments and i honestly think my flying stinks,i now have something like 12 hours now i still cant hover & i fail to balance the aircraft almost every time and when i do i push too hard. please someone tell me that this is normal and to calm down, are there any students out there who feel the same?

one day i will post something positive....but dont hold your breathe.

 

safe flying

 

si

[warpig]

theres no mess. it takes some longer than others and vice versa. you just have to find that balance point. it will come to you all at once. sounds like you need a boost of confidence. hovering a helicopters is probably one of the hardest things to do while your learning so dont beat yourself up. just stay relaxed, tensing up and stressing is going to make it worse.

[simon1969]

theres no mess. it takes some longer than others and vice versa. you just have to find that balance point. it will come to you all at once. sounds like you need a boost of confidence. hovering a helicopters is probably one of the hardest things to do while your learning so dont beat yourself up. just stay relaxed, tensing up and stressing is going to make it worse.

 

hi warpig,

thanks for the advice. i will try and relax.

cheers

[ascott20]

Treat the helo like (pardon the comparison) your girlfriend. You wouldn't push or force her would you? A helo is the same way. You need to be light and smooth with the controls. Abrupt inputs will only throw you farther off course... like your girlfriend:)

 

Also, if you ever feel like your getting lost on the controls and flustered, just start making small (less than dime-sized circles with the cyclic. It will help balance you out and find your center point. At least pscyhologically anyway.

 

Don't worry bud, we've all been there... you'll pull through! Flight time is just that... flight time. Don't think for a minute that you're worse than anyone else... you'll get it and have the same results as all of us soon enough.

[Flying Pig]

When it comes to hovering...its control PRESSURE....not Control movement. One day you will be diving a nd swooping all over the pad trying to hover, and suddenly, in an instant, it will come together, and youll be as solid as a rock. Dont stare at the cyclic when you hover....look out at the horizon.

[Vaqueroaero]

Hello again everyone,

Well another lesson another fine mess i get myself into.

i'd really just like to hear from all who have gone before and can advise me on how best to master this manouver. my instructor say's he is happy with my progress so far,but i dont take well to compliments and i honestly think my flying stinks,i now have something like 12 hours now i still cant hover & i fail to balance the aircraft almost every time and when i do i push too hard. please someone tell me that this is normal and to calm down, are there any students out there who feel the same?

one day i will post something positive....but dont hold your breathe.

 

safe flying

 

si

 

Calm down there young grasshoper!

 

There are a number of issues that you raise in your post that I will comment on.

 

1) You think that your flying stinks. Well be honest........you have 12 hours flight time, so who are you to judge your flying skills? Listen to your instructor. That's why he (or she) is there, and if the instructor is happy then you should be too.

 

2) You say that you can't hover and fail to balance the aircraft. OK here's the deal. You cannot fight the machine, because if you do you will lose. What you have to do is learn to control it. Ask yourself this: how long did it take you to learn to walk? A few months? Probably. So learning to hover is the same. It takes time and effort. If you are a 'high achiever' in life then you will find this hard. Trust me when I say that I have seen some very clever, highly successful people totally humbled by a trusty little R22!

 

Now here are some pointers for you: RELAX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you do not then honestly it will take you longer. Try and make small pressure changes, rather than inputs. The more angry and frustrated you become with this, then the longer it will take.

 

Always keep your eyes moving and do not focus too close to the ground infront of you. By focusing further away ( preferably on the horizon) you will percieve the motion of the aircraft to be smaller, so therefore your inputs will be smaller. Always have a refernce point, whether it be a tree, lamp post, windsock or something like that to judge direction.

 

Finally: RELAX. One day it will just happen. You won't have done anything different. All of a sudden the machine just becomes submissive to you. You will be so surprised that you will promptly lose control and your instructor will have to save the day. That's why we're there.

 

Fly safe,

JD

[Eric Hunt]

You hover by doing things in this order:

 

Make it POINT.

If you don't stop the machine from yawing all over the place, nothing else will work. So, pick a point in the distance and keep it between your toes.

 

Keep the picture FLAT.

Look at the horizon for the attitude cues. Not the grass or the marker cone 20 feet away, look at the horizon. Keep it flat and steady in one spot of the window. Pressure on the controls. If the control actually moves, you are doing too much.

 

Fix the HEIGHT.

Open or close the picture while looking into the distance. You will never get too low, because you will flinch at seeing the grass and end up too high, so then you have to work your way back down. Hover lower. Stop. Hover lower. Stop. Hover lower ... oh look, it won't go any lower because we are on the ground. Piece of cake, isn't it?

[simon1969]

Treat the helo like (pardon the comparison) your girlfriend. You wouldn't push or force her would you? A helo is the same way. You need to be light and smooth with the controls. Abrupt inputs will only throw you farther off course... like your girlfriend:)

 

Also, if you ever feel like your getting lost on the controls and flustered, just start making small (less than dime-sized circles with the cyclic. It will help balance you out and find your center point. At least pscyhologically anyway.

 

Don't worry bud, we've all been there... you'll pull through! Flight time is just that... flight time. Don't think for a minute that you're worse than anyone else... you'll get it and have the same results as all of us soon enough.

 

 

hi, thanks for your thoughts, i find that when i lose control of the r22 in the hover i just let my instructor deal with it, relaxing is the answer but sometimes i find it difficult to relax as i get more flustered with my inputs.

but i'll stick in and hopefully get it eventually.

thanks again for your encouragement it means a lot.

[500E]

Hi 969

 

!2 hours took me 15+ was so frustrated iI nearly walked away! would not look at horizon kept looking at ground\ grass I was always moving backwards, corecting only to find I was moving forward , the horizon is the key, the other thing is to try and break up the lesson, fly circuit first will help you remember why your there and feel of controls, then hover, then fly, hover fly . rest your hand on thigh I very rarely grip the cyclic with my whole hand even on the 500 the movement of your fingers is enough, (especialy on a 22 or 300 ) its what you feel relaxed with.

ASCOT 20 sugestion of the small stiring motion that helped me! I still do this as I come light on the gear it helps me get a feel as to which way every things going to go when I lift off. Frustration will not help

[simon1969]

hi 500E,

yeah i never use the horizon as i'm constantly looking at the grass, i never use the 2 references i'm told too, and expect my instructor to take control as soon as i lose control. but now he's not coming on the controls so he wants me to take more responsibility,i find as soon as i start to panic i forget which pedal to push in and things go from bad to worse.

i just need to learn to relax more especially my feet which still hurt after each lesson due to tenseness.

good to hear from you 500E. safe flying

cheers

simon

[DEMO]

Simon,

 

Relax. You can’t look at the grass or down. Pick a fixed point about 150-200 feet from the aircraft. I found, strangely enough if I talk to the instructor about strange unrelated things family, friends, etc I find my “hover button”.

 

The cyclic is like a cat, pet it nice and it purrs, handle it rough it will bite you. Another thing, when your correcting your cyclic don’t wait for the aircraft to move to your response, by then it’s to late and you’ll find your self over correcting. I had the same problem and this is the instruction I was given. In about an hour I was holding hover for a good while only 3 hours in. Everyone is different. Don’t base your progress or lack of on someone else. The aircraft is always ahead of you. It’s about the feel and anticipation, not response.

 

Hope this helps. This is based upon my experiences.

[lockedcj7]

Here's the thing. When you drive a car (which also took a while to master if you remember) the feedback loop between the time that you made a control input and you see/feel a change is almost instantaneous. The reason for this is that the control surfaces of the car (tires) are firmly connected to a solid surface.

 

In a helicopter, the control surfaces act on air, which is a fluid medium. Therefore, the feedback loop contains some lag time. When you make a control input (or a gust of wind comes along) you don't see the result instantly. Since your control input seemed to have no effect, you make a bigger control input. The effect eventually comes but now it's way too much, forcing you to go back the other way. The inputs get progressively bigger and the A/C gets more and more out of control. This is called "over-controlling the aircraft".

 

A trick taught to me by my first instructor was to make a very small input and then immediately take out about half of it. Imagine moving the cyclic 1/4" left and then 1/8" back to center and then WAIT to see the result. The only danger is in waiting too long. Luckily you have an instuctor on board who won't let you do that.

[Eric Hunt]

Simon,

You say that you don't do the things you are told to do or look where you are told to look.

 

THEN HOW THE HECK ARE YOU EVER GOING TO LEARN???

 

DO WHAT YOU ARE TOLD TO DO, and it will work.

 

Regarding the post about "put in an input and then take half out" - there is no need to do that, because the indicator you need is right in front of your eyes - the attitude.

 

Attitude is instant, performance takes time.

 

That means that when you fix the attitude back to "flat", the aircraft will take a few moments to stop drifting in the direction you wanted to stop. But do whatever you have to do with the cyclic to keep the attitude flat. Sometimes it is forward pressure, sometimes rearward. It is like balancing a stick on your finger - look at the top of the stick and do whatever is needed to keep it steady.

 

Be critical about the attitude - if it is not exactly right, fix it. Don't just sit there doing nothing, because very soon, the performance will catch up with the attitude and you will be moving, and the secondary effects of the controls will already be in play.

 

Make it point

Keep it flat

Fix the height

[500E]

Well there you are 1969 we all do it different in our minds, but the outcome is the same, relax, dont try to hard, when I was learning the CFI said most people have foot problems .

BUT Eric is correct LISTEN & DO what the man in charge says, it realy works

[Guest pokey]

Eric? not sure i want to go there,,,,,,but? (what exactly is yer avatar "doing")

[67november]

Pokey, picture that woman walking toward ya

[simon1969]

hi gang,

just back from another lesson went quite well, I can now hover the helicopter for approx 5-10 seconds! wow but it's a start.

thanks again for all the replies.

 

simon

[Guest pokey]

thats kinda what i was thinkig to 67November-------but looks upside down OR something ?! and Simon?,,,,,,,, NOW all ya hafta do is figure out what you're doing right for that 5-10 seconds & keep doing it ! i remember my 1st hours of trying to hover, when it finally "clicks", you will look back & not be able to understand how you couldnt do it befor. (kinda like your first sucessful 2-wheeler ride)

[500E]

Pokey, picture that woman walking toward ya

 

Dont think walking is it !!

Are we off the post????

[67november]

ok 500E the resulting actoin of walking, now back to topic.