Border Patrol question

[RkyMtnHI]

Hey all,

 

i was told by a friend that the BP will lower the hour requirement if your time is at high altitude?? Is that true?

 

thanks,

 

dp

[palmfish]

From the Job Announcement:

 

"Submit the last page of your documented flight log reflecting a minimum of 1500 hours total flight time (100 hours of aircraft/airplane and/or helicopter within the last 12 months) including 250 Pilot-in-Command and 75 instrument/night hours. Applicants may include UAS Predator A (MQ-1) or Predator B (MQ-9) flight hours. Your full flight log book will be required at time of interview for verification.

 

NOTE: Up to 50% of the 1500 hour total flight requirement may be waived upon verification of prior specialized skills and experiences (e.g., general military flight experience and training, complex aircraft flight instructor experience, multi-engine aircraft time, night vision device operations, imminent danger, and terrain and/or over-water operations.)"

 

http://jobsearch.usajobs.gov/getjob.asp?Jo...bNum=3&rc=3

[RkyMtnHI]

Thanks Palm, i knew you'd be the first to answer.. :-)

 

sooo, does high altitude qualify for "terrain" or would that mean just Mountain time? And if so, what sort of "mountain time" do they require??

 

sorry to be so dense, i just want to make sure that i understand and pass on the correct info.

 

aloha,

 

dp

[palmfish]

Thanks Palm, i knew you'd be the first to answer.. :-)

 

sooo, does high altitude qualify for "terrain" or would that mean just Mountain time? And if so, what sort of "mountain time" do they require??

 

sorry to be so dense, i just want to make sure that i understand and pass on the correct info.

 

aloha,

 

dp

 

That's a good question. The general consensus over at APTAP is that granting of a waiver is evaluated on a case by case basis. I suppose it depends on how the applicant articulates his/her experience.

 

One good reference might be the OH-58 ATM, which contains a number of specific tasks relating to terrain flight including: Terrain Flight Take-Off, Terrain Flight, Terrain Flight Approach, and Terrain Flight Deceleration. Also consider: Masking and Unmasking, Slope Operations, Negotiate Wire Obstacles, and Pinnacle/Ridgeline Operations. Finally, knowledge/experience with Tactical Flight Mission Planning.

 

You don't have to be in the mountains to do any of these tasks, but if you are, it requires a lot more skill and caution, which I would guess would carry some weight in deciding if a waiver is warranted.

 

Sorry I don't have a definitive answer for you - it's just my opinion (I have no personal experience with CBP hiring/employment), but I hope it helps...

[diverturnedpilot]

Palmfish,

 

I am getting ready to retire from the Navy. Will CBP consider an age waiver past your 40th birthday?

 

Thanks,

 

Brad

[palmfish]

Palmfish,

 

I am getting ready to retire from the Navy. Will CBP consider an age waiver past your 40th birthday?

 

Thanks,

 

Brad

 

Sorry Brad, to the best of my knowledge, the answer is no. The hiring age limit is actually 37 for federal law enforcement.

 

For what it's worth, I don't work for CBP, but my understanding is that they have a waiver from OPM to hire up to age 40. Even with the waiver, you must EOD before your 40th birthday.

 

Oh, congratulations on your pending retirement.

[diverturnedpilot]

Thanks for the info Palmfish. That's exactly what I expected. Just my luck!

[thrilsekr]

Why is the age limit 37? Is it just to limit retirement benefits? Or is there a belief that piloting skills, physical fitness, or mental stability degenerates with age?

Seems like there could be some sort of discrimination problems with an age limitation.

[palmfish]

Why is the age limit 37? Is it just to limit retirement benefits? Or is there a belief that piloting skills, physical fitness, or mental stability degenerates with age?

Seems like there could be some sort of discrimination problems with an age limitation.

 

It isn't a pilot thing, per se. As with most federal employees, the age restriction doesn't apply to non-law enforcement pilots.

 

"Covered" federal employees (law enforcement, firefighters, ATC) have mandatory retirement at age 57 (yes, it does have to do with the rigors of the job and decreased performance as we age). Since we must have at least 20 years of service to retire, we must enter on duty before our 37th birthday.

 

The age restriction doesn't limit our benefits - it guarantees them.

[coanda]

just applied today. ex-military (infantry). I get at least 5 points on my eval score! how much for writing my name on the application?

[JDHelicopterPilot]

You might want to ask them, the age limit may not apply if you are coming from the military. Would be worth it to ask since you already work for the government if you are in the military.

 

JD

[palmfish]

You might want to ask them, the age limit may not apply if you are coming from the military. Would be worth it to ask since you already work for the government if you are in the military.

 

JD

 

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

 

In order to retire from federal civil service, you must serve a minimum of 20 years in the civil service. Period.

[JDHelicopterPilot]

Bummer, that's a drag huh? I just know there are a lot of military guys with CBP. Although, they proably already have retirement from the Military and the CBP job is just additional income I would guess.

 

JD

Edited April 27, 2009 by JDHelicopterPilot

[Darkhorse]

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

 

In order to retire from federal civil service, you must serve a minimum of 20 years in the civil service. Period.

 

Ok I'm still confused because I have heard different answers. Is it 20 years of "civil service" or 20 years of "federal law enforcement". I have 15 years of "civil service" but my understanding is the cut off is still 40 because of "federal law enforcement". Either way i still have two years but I'm not so under the gun if my civil service time counts.

[palmfish]

Ok I'm still confused because I have heard different answers. Is it 20 years of "civil service" or 20 years of "federal law enforcement". I have 15 years of "civil service" but my understanding is the cut off is still 40 because of "federal law enforcement". Either way i still have two years but I'm not so under the gun if my civil service time counts.

 

Sorry, when I said "civil service" above, it was to keep things simple and differentiate between military and civilian service.

 

There are in fact two types of civil service retirement under FERS (Federal Employee Retirement System) - "regular" (most employees) and "enhanced" (law enforcement, firefighters, ATC, etc.).

 

Yes, in your case, you still have to be hired before you turn 40 because your civil service time is not "enhanced" (6c/12d). This is because in order to be entitled to the "enhanced LEO annuity computation (1.7% vs. 1.0%), you must contribute at the higher LEO rate (1.3% vs. 0.8% for "regular" employees) for 20 years. However, when you do retire, your non-LEO civil service time will still be used to compute your annuity (at the 1% rate).

 

For example, if you are hired at age 38, serve 22 years as a LEO, and retire at age 60, your FERS retirement computation would look something like this...

 

1.7% X $140,000 (avg GS-13/10 (in today's money) high-3) X 20 = $47,600.

1.0% X $140,000 X 17 (15 years non-LEO + 2 years LEO over 20 years) = $23,800. (This is also where your military service (if you have any and buy it back) gets added to your annuity).

 

Your pension would be $71,400 + your TSP annuity + Social Security offset.

 

Clear as mud?

[palmfish]

Bummer, that's a drag huh? I just know there are a lot of military guys with CBP. Although, they proably already have retirement from the Military and the CBP job is just additional income I would guess.

 

JD

 

Well JD, for the longest time, it was pretty much impossible to retire from the military and then start a federal LE job - even if you enlisted on your 17th birthday, you couldn't retire until your 37th birthday, which is too late to enter federal 6c/12d service. When CBP announced the 40 year-old cut-off, it opened up a previously unheard of opportunity for some sweet double-dipping.

 

As far as I know, CBP is the only agency doing this. For those who are qualified (I can't imagine too many military pilots get their commission before the age of 20), it's a great chance for retired military pilots to get back on Uncle Sugar's payroll - without deployments, PCS moves every 3 years, etc.