Los Angeles Helicopter Route Chart

[JDHelicopterPilot]

Dear Membership,

 

 

 

The PHPA is soliciting input from its membership regarding updates and modifications that you would like to see made to the NOAA Helicopter Route chart for the Los Angeles Basin area. We are asking members to submit in writing ideas regarding flight paths, safety concerns, or any other pertinent information that you would like to see on the chart.

 

 

 

While the PHPA respects your privacy we may reach out to you looking for additional clarification regarding any input submitted. Please send all correspondence to "chart@phpa.org" and responses no later than Wednesday, March 24th, 2010.

 

 

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

Your Board of Directors, PHPA

[Goldy]

Dear Membership,

 

 

 

The PHPA is soliciting input from its membership regarding updates and modifications that you would like to see made to the NOAA Helicopter Route chart for the Los Angeles Basin area. We are asking members to submit in writing ideas regarding flight paths, safety concerns, or any other pertinent information that you would like to see on the chart.

 

 

 

While the PHPA respects your privacy we may reach out to you looking for additional clarification regarding any input submitted. Please send all correspondence to "chart@phpa.org" and responses no later than Wednesday, March 24th, 2010.

 

 

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

Your Board of Directors, PHPA

 

 

Yeah, I got that email. Maybe we could do something with Newhall Pass? Make North and South bound traffic separated somehow?

 

Can we legalize shooting down aircraft that don't listen to or talk on a radio?

 

Only 2 suggestions I can come up with.

 

Goldy

[JDHelicopterPilot]

That's a good idea with Newhall. The radio comunication issue would have to be solved another way. Primarly with education. I would like to see more safety meetings geared towards helicopter operations. That would help a lot.

 

JD

[HeloJunkie]

......

 

Can we legalize shooting down aircraft that don't listen to or talk on a radio?

 

Goldy

 

 

I like it !!

[Goldy]

That's a good idea with Newhall. The radio comunication issue would have to be solved another way. Primarly with education. I would like to see more safety meetings geared towards helicopter operations. That would help a lot.

 

JD

 

Just last week I was flying a fixed wing with a friend to Vegas. As we departed VNY the controller advised us we had helicopter traffic working Newhall Pass at 2500. I instantly switched the aux radio over to .02 and started talking to a LASD airship on a call orbiting Newhall Pass. My fixed wing friend had no clue what I was doing, or how I was doing it.

 

I told him, this is a LOW altitude frequency, NOT a HELICOPTER ONLY frequency!

 

We hit Newhall climbing out of 3500, but it was still nice to know where that helicopter was, and to let him know we were coming. He was surprised when I told him I switched over to .02 just because I heard they were working Newhall Pass. I didnt have the heart to tell him I was a helo pilot!

 

My friend has been flying in LA about 15 years now, never heard of 123.02.

 

So yes, training would help. It should be mandated, if flying under 1000 AGL, and not under the control of ATC, you MUST monitor and update your location on the designated low altitude frequency.

 

I was at Santa Anita Sunday and watched as a F/W came overhead about 400 AGL then headed towards the rising terrain to the North, without climbing. He was 300 or less AGL as he turned over East over Duarte and then South into El Monte. Thats what I feel is our number one danger out there...uninformed F/W pilots.

 

But I've said it many times before.

 

Newhall Pass is dangerous because of the convergence of aircraft all talking on five different frequencies! (123.02, 119.0, 119.2, 118.7, 135.0) depending on their path. It is also the location of one of my two near misses, and the last mid air collision in Los Angeles.

 

Goldy

Edited March 23, 2010 by Goldy

[Inferno]

At least they were on 123.02. 90% of the time im in the mountains and see another helicopter, you can't get them on radio to let them know you're there....

 

Just last week I was flying a fixed wing with a friend to Vegas. As we departed VNY the controller advised us we had helicopter traffic working Newhall Pass at 2500. I instantly switched the aux radio over to .02 and started talking to a LASD airship on a call orbiting Newhall Pass. My fixed wing friend had no clue what I was doing, or how I was doing it.

 

I told him, this is a LOW altitude frequency, NOT a HELICOPTER ONLY frequency!

 

We hit Newhall climbing out of 3500, but it was still nice to know where that helicopter was, and to let him know we were coming. He was surprised when I told him I switched over to .02 just because I heard they were working Newhall Pass. I didnt have the heart to tell him I was a helo pilot!

 

My friend has been flying in LA about 15 years now, never heard of 123.02.

 

So yes, training would help. It should be mandated, if flying under 1000 AGL, and not under the control of ATC, you MUST monitor and update your location on the designated low altitude frequency.

 

I was at Santa Anita Sunday and watched as a F/W came overhead about 400 AGL then headed towards the rising terrain to the North, without climbing. He was 300 or less AGL as he turned over East over Duarte and then South into El Monte. Thats what I feel is our number one danger out there...uninformed F/W pilots.

 

But I've said it many times before.

 

Newhall Pass is dangerous because of the convergence of aircraft all talking on five different frequencies! (123.02, 119.0, 119.2, 118.7, 135.0) depending on their path. It is also the location of one of my two near misses, and the last mid air collision in Los Angeles.

 

Goldy

[C of G]

Just last week I was flying a fixed wing with a friend to Vegas. As we departed VNY the controller advised us we had helicopter traffic working Newhall Pass at 2500. I instantly switched the aux radio over to .02 and started talking to a LASD airship on a call orbiting Newhall Pass. My fixed wing friend had no clue what I was doing, or how I was doing it.

 

I told him, this is a LOW altitude frequency, NOT a HELICOPTER ONLY frequency!

 

We hit Newhall climbing out of 3500, but it was still nice to know where that helicopter was, and to let him know we were coming. He was surprised when I told him I switched over to .02 just because I heard they were working Newhall Pass. I didnt have the heart to tell him I was a helo pilot!

 

My friend has been flying in LA about 15 years now, never heard of 123.02.

 

While it would never be enforced, 123.025 is a helicopter air to air freq. Reference AIM Table 4-1-3, so it's not surprising a plank hasn't heard of it. There may be guys adding a sixth or seventh freq there too, 122.75 or 123.45. I can only imagine the confusion in that area.

[Goldy]

While it would never be enforced, 123.025 is a helicopter air to air freq. Reference AIM Table 4-1-3, so it's not surprising a plank hasn't heard of it. There may be guys adding a sixth or seventh freq there too, 122.75 or 123.45. I can only imagine the confusion in that area.

 

You're right, it would never be enforced, and I'll be sure to tell the CHP FW that is on it all day long he should change frequencies! OK, just kidding cause he's a buddy of mine.

 

I looked for that table but could not find it in the 2010 AIM. I'll look online.

 

I was basing my comments on the VFR Terminal Area Chart..."Intense helicopter operations below 2000'AGL in the Los Angeles Basin. ALL pilots transitioning the area at or below 2000' AGL are encouraged to make regular position reports on frequency 123.025". Says nothing of helicopters only and is on the Terminal Chart, not the Helicopter Chart.

 

Anyway, wouldn't be the first time there was a conflict in the rules!

 

Good catch,

 

Goldy

[Hawkeye0001]

Hi Goldy!

 

I highlighted the exact same table a week ago, so here you go: It's on page 608 in the ASA 2010 FAR/AIM, lower left corner (Chapter 4-1-11 Designated UNICOM / MULTICOM Frequencies, table 4-1-3).

 

Air-to-air communications (general aviation helicopters): 123.025

[JDHelicopterPilot]

Everyone is right.

 

It is a helicopter air to air freq as stated in the AIM. However, as Goldy pointed out on the Terminal Chart for Los Angeles it does state on there that ALL pilots flying below 2000' should be on 123.025.

 

Education is key. Hopefuly everyone will get on the same page. I can't do much from Las Vegas but I suggest you bring your concerns to the FAA Safety Team from the FSDO there. The FAASTeam should have an office at LGB. With more feedback they can set up more meetings to address these concerns. Let me know if you want contact info.

 

 

JD

Edited March 24, 2010 by JDHelicopterPilot

[Goldy]

Everyone is right.

JD

 

And I thought I was the politician. BTW I'll be in Vegas for the B2V event coming up....whats the chances of flying up? Nill ?

 

Hawkeye- Thanks for the detail, found it. But I would mention that is an FCC designation, not an FAA one.

 

Goldy

[JDHelicopterPilot]

What day is the event? Are you going be around a few days?

 

JD

[Goldy]

What day is the event? Are you going be around a few days?

 

JD

 

Driving up early Saturday morning on April 17th to Baker.Then off from there towards Shoshone. There was a cool B222 up there 2 years ago. So from 8 am on the 17th until noon on the 18th, I'll be out in the desert there somewhere!

 

Goldy