Cell phone use in flight

[rjl2001]

I thought this was interesting, the FCC prohibits the use of cell phones on any aircraft while airborne. I'm pretty sure I've used the camera on my phone while in flight to take a picture on occasion, so I guess I was in violation of this rule. Seems odd this rule exists when there are so many aviation apps meant for use in flight on smartphones, and new headsets advertise their compatability features to be used with cell phones. The flight school I'm flying with now even says in their operations manual that all their flight instructors will have a cell phone on them during flights. Maybe I'm missunderstanding something or this is only meant to apply to voice phone calls. I'm guessing though that this rule is often broken in the general aviation segment, and probably given very little priority in terms of enforcement by the FCC.

 

Title 47: Telecommunication
PART 22—PUBLIC MOBILE SERVICES
Subpart H—Cellular Radiotelephone Service

§ 22.925 Prohibition on airborne operation of cellular telephones.

Cellular telephones installed in or carried aboard airplanes, balloons or any other type of aircraft must not be operated while such aircraft are airborne (not touching the ground). When any aircraft leaves the ground, all cellular telephones on board that aircraft must be turned off. The following notice must be posted on or near each cellular telephone installed in any aircraft:

“The use of cellular telephones while this aircraft is airborne is prohibited by FCC rules, and the violation of this rule could result in suspension of service and/or a fine. The use of cellular telephones while this aircraft is on the ground is subject to FAA regulations.”

[Goldy]

Rj- Many cell phones have an "airplane mode" that allow you to use features like your camera even though your cell phone is off. Basically, cell service is just that....small cells of service. When you gain altitude your phone contacts multiple towers and could tie up multiple channels at the same time, thus a need for the law.

 

Technology has changed the very reason for this rule however. Now with embedded GPS, cell services know your location and can direct the call to the appropriate cell tower. This is fairly new technology however, so it will be decades before the laws catch up with technology.

 

As far as enforcement.....there are not too many federal agencies that have less enforcement than the FCC.

 

As far as your CFI having to have a cell phone, that doesn't mean it has to be on....but have it as a communications means in case of emergency.

 

I've tracked many cell phones in my "other job"...with some altitude it's not unusual to hit a tower as much as 15 miles away with a hand held phone. If you consider how many cell sites there are in a 15 mile radius, it all makes sense.

[ridethisbike]

Tie up multiple channels? Isn't that the very reason frequencies are issued in blocks? To avoid overlap? What on an airplane uses the same frequencies as a cell phone?

 

I was under the impression that the law was created to avoid interference, but even that doesn't make much sense. I've never heard of a cell phone ACTUALLY interfering with the avionics of any aircraft. Not to say it's never happened, but I feel like it would have to be done by someone with the intention of interfering (hardware "hacker").

[aeroscout]

Mythbusters even did an episode on cell phone interference, they couldn't confirm any interference with any instrument, radio or receiver.

[rjl2001]

I believe the FAA rules were created with the possibilities of interference in mind or possibly realizing it serves as a distraction in flight, since they are responsible for aviation safety issues. The FCC does not regulate aviation safety, so it reasons that their regulations would have been designed with the usability of communication networks in mind.

 

I was curious about the issue of many cell phones having airplane mode. However, I wasn't able to find anything from the FCC that addressed that. The wording in that CFR seems like it's pretty clear... "cell phones must not be operated." Maybe that's interpreted as operating the actual radio transceiver in the phone itself and not the entire device which includes the other functions of a smart phone.

 

Of the three different flight schools I've flown with over the past few years, I'm nearly certain that at least one instructor I have flown with from each school has sent text messages from their cell phone while in flight. I'm positive of that with two schools at least and a few different instructors. That observation and the fact that I have known of others to text while in flight, leads me to draw the conclusion that this rule is frequently broken.

 

That being said, I agree it sounds like that regulation is of little to no practical importance to a GA pilot.

[DS_HMMR]

Keep the law. It gives all pilots with overbearing "significant others" a solid excuse for not answering our phones.

 

 

 

I'm just sayin'..........

[Gomer Pylot]

The FCC regulation dates from the early days of cell phones, when the technology was far behind what it is now, and one could tie up lots of cell towers from the air. And there were far fewer towers available. It was possible to cause outages through tying up too many towers. Today, the regulation is outdated and has no real relation to reality. The FAA regulations are more reality-based, though. It is possible to cause interference with avionics regardless of the cellphone frequencies, since all transmitters (and receivers, too) transmit harmonics of their basic frequency, not just the one authorized. Those harmonics are weak, but can still be powerful enough over the few feet from the phone to the avionics in a small aircraft. The FAA doesn't prohibit all electronic devices, just those the operator hasn't tested and determined to have no dangers. That's why you can use your laptop on a plane - the airline has tested them and decided that the consequences of banning them are worse than not permitting them. It did take some airlines a long time to come around to allowing other devices, though. I've done testing on electronic devices for my employer. We all had some incentive to do that when the first handheld GPS units started being sold, and we wanted to use them in the cockpit because they were far better than the crappy LORAN units we had installed. Plus, the company wanted to allow the critters to use devices on the trip offshore, to keep them happy. But again, modern devices, sold in the past few years, really won't interfere with modern avionics, or even older stuff. It's just too hard to get regulations changed. That's why you still have to turn off everything for takeoff and landing on an airliner. Bureaucratic inertia. It won't move anytime soon.

[Hobie]

"An emergency medical helicopter pilot flying over Missouri was sending and receiving text messages before crashing in 2011, the first time such distractions have been implicated in a fatal commercial aviation accident."

 

Read more here:

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-08/texting-while-flying-linked-to-commercial-crash-in-u-s-first.html

[avbug]

I've never heard of a cell phone ACTUALLY interfering with the avionics of any aircraft.

 

I certainly have, and the ASRS system has hundreds of such reports. Do a little research.

 

There are two primary concerns with cellular use in aircraft. One is the effect on cellular systems themselves; cell towers and the cellular networks were originally designed based on the use of a cell system from the ground level to the highest earth-based point within the predicted coverage area. They were not designed for use in points higher than that, which in the early years, could cause cell disruption and other problems both for the cell company, and for the end-user.

 

Use of cell phones in flight not too many years ago could lead to very large charges to the end user, as well as fines. Today the cellular systems are not nearly as affected by airborne use.

 

The other problem is potential interference with aircraft systems or avionics. I've seen instrument indication issues and flight control issues in automated flight, during the use of a cellular device. Shutting off the device, the problems went away. Turning it on, they returned. The specific problems and the specific devices really depend on a number of factors. Presently we're seeing internet and cellular availability on aircraft enroute at altitude, and long distance phone capability is available through satphones, too (I've used them a lot...but we were required to deactivate them for takeoff and the climb-out, and for the arrival, approach, and landing). Satphones are great when in the middle of nowhere...I've used them in some very remote parts of the world, in flight and on the ground, using approved installations in the cockpit. Cellular phones, not so much.

 

A compadre got a text message on his ipad today, and an email, while in flight, VFR, approaching a field to land. I can't say for certain, but I believe he successfully replied.

[ridethisbike]

I certainly have, and the ASRS system has hundreds of such reports. Do a little research.

 

Fair enough... I'll be right back.

 

Oh wow. Yea, there are a lot of reports. I definitely see a trend in some of them: the more sophisticated the avionics, the greater the risk of interference. Mostly. I did see a couple that reported LOC variations that shouldn't have existed on "ILS/VOR." Report 611910 in the pdf linked to below.

 

For anyone interested... http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/docs/rpsts/ped.pdf

 

 

Also, pilots should most DEFINITELY not be allowed to use cell phones while flying. Your compadre that replied successfully is lucky nothing happened. I'm pretty sure times like that are when Murphy likes to strike...

[apiaguy]

I text and make calls all the time while flying. Alas. I'm not flying anything with a glass cockpit nor do I do it in imc cause I'm busy. I always try to text on the majors as long as I can get a signal. A lot of times from fl33

[MileHi480B]

Here's one good reason: http://news.yahoo.com/ntsb-probes-case-texting-helicopter-pilot-072038860--finance.html

[avbug]

I always try to text on the majors as long as I can get a signal. A lot of times from fl33

 

Even though you've been instructed by the crew to shut off your phone?

 

The noise in ANR headsets for the crew is annoying, and what you're doing is unwise, to say nothing of illegal.

[apiaguy]

instructed by the crew... do you mean the lady on the phone? Explain how it is unwise please, I can't wait for this one.

[Guest pokey]

instructed by the crew... do you mean the lady on the phone? Explain how it is unwise please, I can't wait for this one.

 

well apiaguy, i am sure you have heard of deja vu?---you know the feeling like you have been thru all this befor??....... welll this is a classic case of deja moo,, the feeling like you have heard all this bullsh** befor

[avbug]

instructed by the crew... do you mean the lady on the phone? Explain how it is unwise please, I can't wait for this one.

 

I mean the flight attendant, who has a legal responsibility to provide for your safety and compliance with the regulation. You're familiar with the regulation?

 

You're saying that on a flight on which you've been instructed to shut off your cell phone, you turn it on and use it, regardless of the regulation and regardless of the instructions of the flight crew?

 

You don't understand the rationale behind not using your cell phone to send and receive voice or text messages in flight? Have you not read the thread? Which part did you not understand?

[apiaguy]

I'm an FAA representative that has been commissioned to study the Personal Electronic Device (PED) interference in airborn aviation situations. With my background in research and a scientific approach we have not been able to scientifically deduce a correlation between PED's and the interference reported by airline crews. This is not to say such interference does not exist... there are simply too many variables at this time to make a factual statement.

[apiaguy]

I didn't want to reveal my true identity... but you wouldn't stop. And I'll need your compadre's information for my report.

Edited April 9, 2013 by apiaguy

[Guest pokey]

I didn't want to reveal my true identity... but you wouldn't stop. And I'll need your compadre's information for my report.

 

 

You'll never take me alive !

[Guest pokey]

I mean the flight attendant, who has a legal responsibility to provide for your safety and compliance with the regulation. You're familiar with the regulation?

 

You're saying that on a flight on which you've been instructed to shut off your cell phone, you turn it on and use it, regardless of the regulation and regardless of the instructions of the flight crew?

 

You don't understand the rationale behind not using your cell phone to send and receive voice or text messages in flight? Have you not read the thread? Which part did you not understand?

 

 

<<<gets out his bugspray