brian74 Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 Im currently flying EC-145's for an Army National Guard unit. I have recently been spending a bit of time delving into performance charts as we may be taking on hoist and SAR missions in the future. Im in the process of developing some tab data (we have sandfilters). I know a fair amount of you guys are ex-Army pilots. We (Army) always validate our weight and environmental conditions through predicted hover charts. I've been told civilian pilots do not use those charts. Just curious how some of you guys plan for high gross weight/high da missions and what tools/info/rules of thumb you do use. In theory I know that as long as I am under max gross weight and will not exceed my MTA under given environmental conditions, power is genarally assured. Bonus question... N1 limiting (FLI) on the EC-145. Can someone explain it or lead me somewhere where I can get a better explanation of it? Thanks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharyouTree Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 Im currently flying EC-145's for an Army National Guard unit. I have recently been spending a bit of time delving into performance charts as we may be taking on hoist and SAR missions in the future. Im in the process of developing some tab data (we have sandfilters). I know a fair amount of you guys are ex-Army pilots. We (Army) always validate our weight and environmental conditions through predicted hover charts. I've been told civilian pilots do not use those charts. Just curious how some of you guys plan for high gross weight/high da missions and what tools/info/rules of thumb you do use. In theory I know that as long as I am under max gross weight and will not exceed my MTA under given environmental conditions, power is genarally assured. Bonus question... N1 limiting (FLI) on the EC-145. Can someone explain it or lead me somewhere where I can get a better explanation of it? Thanks. What did you fly before you got the Lakota transition? I'd be extremely cautious about "developing" Tab data, and using it, without it being vetted by DES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian74 Posted March 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 We actually have DES here permanantly at our station. I plan to scrub the charts with them prior to considering bringing one into the cockpit. It seems a lot of guys like the HAATS tab charts, but those charts do not have accurate MTA data for sandfilter equipped LUH's. I used to fly 47's. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian74 Posted March 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 The last time I showed one of my products to DES, they shared it with the entire Army aviation community, so I am hopeful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kona4breakfast Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 You can pull it from the RFMs, but you have to be very careful to make sure you know what the chart is telling you. I did a very basic HOGE table for the 412, but I fly in a pretty limited environmental window. We also know exactly how much everything that gets on board weighs. I check to make sure the torque makes sense, but the SP birds still use calibrated oil pressure, so it's a pretty big swag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalkSpike Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 Performance charts are used a lot in the offshore industry, see this YouTube video to see what you can do with your performance charts in excel: makes getting data from a chart a whole lot easier!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 (edited) I've been told civilian pilots do not use those charts. Okay, I'll talk..... For civilians, performance planning is required by 91.103. Plus, some have additional requirements by either policy or contractual spec’s. For me, I do a chart every day I fly to include scanning my calculations and sending it to my cell phone for prosperity, and protection. Edited March 18, 2016 by Spike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wally Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 I am usually MGTO weight and/or balance limited and not performance. Except in the summer heat and humidity, especially if I'm working from the Blue Ridge. )Stop laughing, the FAA says they count as mountains!) If I'm operating high, hot and humid, I work book MGTOs up to the max altitude as part of my day's planning for the area I can expect to respond to. My aircraft are configured with only two variables, patient weight and fuel aboard, so the planning is very simple, all that remains is confirmation that the aircraft can deliver planned power upon which the plan was based.If the patient situation meets the appropriate MGTO/CG limits, I confirm the plan. After the high recon over the point of intended operation, I do a HOGE power check and apply rule of thumb adjustments for NG and TQ at the expected weight. Only one patient, so far, had gained so much weight between estimate and loading that I had to do super hero aviator pilot stuff to get out of the LZ. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian74 Posted March 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 Okay, I'll talk..... For civilians, performance planning is required by 91.103. Plus, some have additional requirements by either policy or contractual specs. For me, I do a chart every day I fly to include scanning my calculations and sending it to my cell phone for prosperity, and protection. I was referring specifically to the 'predicted hover' charts that the Army uses. We get these in addition to the rfm charts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 I was referring specifically to the 'predicted hover' charts that the Army uses. We get these in addition to the rfm charts. Got it… On the civi side, we use (and mostly required to use) what the manufacturer publishes in the RFM. If my organization came up with performance matrix which they made-up beyond what the manufacturer prescribes, then it places the onus on them, which they tend to want to avoid…… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian74 Posted March 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 I like the hover charts, don't get me wrong...99% of our current mission sets are under familiar and known conditions with plenty of power margin and low risk. Occasionally though, there are missions where less predictable destination pa and temps & unplanned pax will put us into a much narrower power margin, where fuel planning (weight) is critical. These missions are usually also the high profile "hurry up and get there yesterday" with minimal planning missions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wally Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 I like the hover charts, don't get me wrong...99% of our current mission sets are under familiar and known conditions with plenty of power margin and low risk. Occasionally though, there are missions where less predictable destination pa and temps & unplanned pax will put us into a much narrower power margin, where fuel planning (weight) is critical. These missions are usually also the high profile "hurry up and get there yesterday" with minimal planning missions. And? So far, it's a typical pilot day... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian74 Posted March 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 And? So far, it's a typical pilot day...Just looking into techniques to better streamline the process and minimize potential for error when and if we do encounter those missions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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