FAA and the Army

[01CelicaGTS]

So, a recent event sparked my interest in how the FAA handles Army Aviators if they break a regulation. Or, more specifically, how an Army Aviator handles the FAA. For example, what if an Army Aviator violates a TFR.

 

If I'm flying on the civilian side as a commercial (or private) aviator and I accidentally penetrate a TFR, I would be subject to suspension and fines. However, if I file a NASA report within 10 days and the violation was inadvertent and not criminal I will be "immune" to the suspension and fines, but it will still be on my record.

 

But, is it different for the Army? I had an instructor in flight school that told us about how we are basically "covered" by the Army and that we could not get flight violated by the FAA. He said that we aren't required to give up our certificate number (or possibly even our names). It's been a few years now so I don't remember exactly what he said about it.

 

Say I'm flying my trusty old Blackhawk and I accidentally penetrate a TFR. Approach calls me and tells me to copy a number and call when I get on the ground. So, what do I do? Do I call my command first? Can (or should) I file a NASA report? If I do call, what information should I give them?

 

On another similar note (as I was looking up all this information about TFRs), I noticed that the "blanket NOTAM" that covers stadiums for sporting events (NOTAM 4/3621) says,

 

"THE RESTRICTIONS DESCRIBED ABOVE DO NOT APPLY TO THOSE AIRCRAFT AUTHORIZED BY AND IN CONTACT WITH ATC FOR OPERATIONAL OR SAFETY OF FLIGHT PURPOSES, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, LAW ENFORCEMENT, AND AIR AMBULANCE FLIGHT OPERATIONS."

 

So, if I'm flying an Army aircraft does that mean that I don't have to comply with this NOTAM?

[CharyouTree]

"Authorized by..." You'd still be violating if you weren't supposed to be there. (The guys who did the overflight for the super bowl a few years ago were covered, for example....)

 

As far as being covered by the army, yes... I'm on my iPad and don't want to type too much on it, but that's the short version. It doesn't count if you get intercepted for violating a presidential TFR or prohibited area though.

[Insights_STG]

The way it was explained to me was... "Army guys are allowed to tell ATC to f**k themselves at any point in time and for any reason. As long as they are in a helicopter, the FAA's hands are tied."

 

-G,S.Patton Jr.

 

He was all about sticking it to the FAA for some reason..

 

I think he just liked the power of immunity. Flashing FAA agents his dong was something that he wrote extensively on in his autobiography.

[stearmann4]

Per AR 95-1, if a violation occurs, you are to report it to your CoC, and they deal with, and everything that entails. The FAA cannot take direct action against you as the PIC because you don't hold an FAA issued certificate, and you're flying a government owned aircraft operated under Public use category. The FAAs assumption is that your command will scold you, and retrain accordingly. But no, they can't take action against you personally.

 

However, the FAA may file a violation against you if (and they will) discover you hold an FAA certificate. It's not guaranteed, but depends purely on the persistence and severity of the violation as deemed by the investigator assigned to the case. None of this applies if you're violate the Washington DC SFRA, they, and the Army have to take action. Filing a thorough NASA form should be the very first thing you do when you land if you think you may have committed a potential violation. if you file one after the FAA call's it's inadmissable.

 

The FAA can request to speak to you directly to get details about the alleged violation, and the first thing they will ask after confirming your identity is "Do you currently hold an FAA pilot certificate?" Decline to speak to them and seek aviation legal counsel. By the way, the $100/year AOPA legal representation program is worth every penny!

 

Lastly, I've even seen the FAA go the other direction. There once was an off duty Army Aviator who decided to buzz the Sturgis bike rally at 200' with smoke on in a WWII biplane. He barely avoided a violation, but the investigator who was retired Army threatened to notify the offending pilot's commander as to his "Dangerous tendencies".

 

Mike-

[01CelicaGTS]

Thanks for the input Mike! That actually jogs my memory as to what I heard in flight school. It was during the class in instruments when they were telling us about taking the Military Comp exam to get our FAA certificates. He basically told us what you were saying. I already held my commercial certificate before the Army, so I couldn't NOT get my certificate and be "covered" just in case.

 

"Authorized by..." You'd still be violating if you weren't supposed to be there. (The guys who did the overflight for the super bowl a few years ago were covered, for example....)

As far as being covered by the army, yes... I'm on my iPad and don't want to type too much on it, but that's the short version. It doesn't count if you get intercepted for violating a presidential TFR or prohibited area though.

 

So, the reason I was wondering about that is because you can read it as "The restrictions described above do not apply to":

 

1) "Those aircraft authorized by and in contact with ATC for operational, or safety of flight purposes,"

 

2) "Department of Defense,"

 

3) "Law Enforcement", and

 

4) "Air Ambulance flight operations."

 

If you read it like that, then there are 4 separate groups that the restrictions do not apply to.

[Gomer Pylot]

That's the way it reads. The TFR applies to none of those. To fly a military aircraft, you do not need an FAA certificate of any kind, and the FAA has no oversight over military operations, pilots, or aircraft. You don't have to give them your name or anything else. They can notify the Army of what you may have done and request action, but that's all. Not every controller is aware of this.

[Ritter]

 

Lastly, I've even seen the FAA go the other direction. There once was an off duty Army Aviator who decided to buzz the Sturgis bike rally at 200' with smoke on in a WWII biplane. He barely avoided a violation, but the investigator who was retired Army threatened to notify the offending pilot's commander as to his "Dangerous tendencies".

 

That sounds awesome.

[brackac]

 

There once was an off duty Army Aviator who decided to buzz the Sturgis bike rally at 200' with smoke on in a WWII biplane.

Mike-

Wait a second, what does your username mean?

 

😀

[highside7r]

If you following the CoC route as you should, be ready for the backlash from the "incident". As the PC of an incident flight a few years ago, it came down to giving an in-depth class on related material during aviator academics. Big Army took care of it and never heard from the FAA.