College Degrees needed?

[Chopperboy]

What are one's requirements to flying in a Department? I mean

what else do they look at besides your amount of experience and ability to fly?

[Flying Pig]

Other than what is initially required to get hired on by the agency, I dont know of any department that requires a degree just to fly, and really dont think anyone in the unit would care if you had one.

[delorean]

The federal government agencies require them--or at least they did when they were recruiting me.

 

The DEA's reqs were 21 yrs old, B.S. degree, 3.2+ GPA, etc for a agent.  You had to be an agent for two years before you could apply for flight ops.

 

But like the previous poster said, you don't need it "just to fly", but rarely will go straight to the flight dept.

[mechanic]

Hi,

 Are you focusing on a flight or law degree? You should get one in Criminal Justice if you are set on airborne law enforcement, there are a few different majors you can take in this field. You may have to check with a few colleges to find a degree you like. The more you know about police activities the better. You will also have to get your peace officer certification (basic police academy). I have seen units have a min street cop time from 6 months to 4 years before you can transfer to the aviation dept.

 

Regards.

[Flying Pig]

It doesnt matter what you get your degree in.  Criminal Justice wont help you or hurt you.  Get it in something you want.

[mechanic]

Flying Pig,

 

I don't know about the state you live in, but my state is working on passing a state bill to make a 4 year degree mandatory to work as a peace officer here ( I doubt it will ever pass) and preferably a criminal justice w/ law enforcement major, according to some of my state and local cop friends. As promotions up the chain go, what would make you look better, BS in Economics or BS Criminal Justice/Law Enforcement, all else being equal?

 

 

Big E,

Read the thread "Any Agencie's Recuiting", Flying Pig gives some good detailed "insider" advice. I can only repeat advice given me when I weighted out going law enforcement from my uncle and ex coworker/cop friends. Keep in mind some departments have the good ole boy political system and that can add to the time you get in the air. Good luck with your decision.

 

Regards

[Flying Pig]

Wow!  Your state must want fewer cops!  I am in California.  From my experience, business Admin, political science, or some type of sociology is what people want.  Criminal Justice is pretty redundant because you go to an academy, and continually have advanced training.  All the cops I have worked with who have Crim degrees said it doesnt help them in the slightest.  Again, as I said before, here nobody care what your degree is in, just that you have one.  So crim wouldnt hurt you at all.  Im just saying dont think you have to choke down criminal justice if there is something your more interested in.

[Badkharma]

Yes Flying Pig, I have heard it best to get degrees in fields OTHER than law enforcement as well. You learn all the required academics at the academy anyway.

 

What if you can't get into law enforcement? There's no guarantees. There aren't many other options for you with a CJ degree. Personally, I'd recommend Business/Engineering (Engineering is the hot degree right now...). They're both versatile. Making it a law for peace officers to have CJ degrees would be, to put it bluntly, stupid (IMHO). This is a whole 'nother topic though.

 

That said, a degree will definitely make/keep you competitive, but at most agencies, it's not required.

[Badkharma]

LOL I just realized the latest post before mine was on 10-21-05!!! I guess this forum isn't as active as I thought...

[james28]

no it is active, this post just got burried somewhere is all.

[Crusty Old Dude]

<font color='#000000'>Other than what is initially required to get hired on by the agency, I dont know of any department that requires a degree just to fly, and really dont think anyone in the unit would care if you had one.</font>

How does any experienced pilot pull THIS off? 1500 hours and then join the DEA for two years PRIOR to APPLYING?

 

I had another discussion with an LE pilot that made sense (knowing/understanding the beat, police work, etc) and it makes good sense, but what about currency? And who can truly afford (time, money, etc) to do this and how is it done? I'd personally LOVE flying LE, and also would love law enforcement...but talk about a pay cut at first.

[zemogman]

It amazing to me that police departments want more and more education, but in my opinion have some of the lowest starting pay of any career. Not to mention the versatitlity, personality, family sacrifice and personal risk involved. It is an honorable position and should be treated as such.

 

IMHO --- Police officers should start out at 70K to 80K minimum...Financial stress is, unfortunately, immediately added to all the other stresses of being an officer right off the bat. Requiring a degree would only have officers starting out with more debt.

 

I don't think a degree is a bad thing...I just think our priorities are out of wack...911 is so easy to press on the phone when you need it and nobody thinks twice about it. Meanwhile...our cops lose sleep, time, families and years off their life for sub-par pay!!!! I don't think an individual's strong desire to be a servant to humanity, should be taken advantage of by low salaries. I have the same sentiment for EMT's and EMS in general.

 

I too would love to fly LE but would / could not put my family through the financial stress of $27,000/yr. (for patrol back when I interviewed many years ago). It's still only 35K now...it's a joke!

 

Just venting....thanks!

[palmfish]

How does any experienced pilot pull THIS off? 1500 hours and then join the DEA for two years PRIOR to APPLYING?

 

I had another discussion with an LE pilot that made sense (knowing/understanding the beat, police work, etc) and it makes good sense, but what about currency? And who can truly afford (time, money, etc) to do this and how is it done? I'd personally LOVE flying LE, and also would love law enforcement...but talk about a pay cut at first.

 

For many DEA Airwing positions, a PPL is all that is required.

[NOETIME]

I agree with you Zman. It always amazed me that not only law enforcement but fire dept., teachers, and the military have responsibilities that far outweight those who "PLAY" sports for instance. I know athletes train and also make sacrifices to be the best at what they do, I can't knock that, it's our value system that needs to be looked at. Where did we ever get the notion that those who sacrifice the most should be compensated the least? It's crazy. Hope I didnt offend any athletes.

[Goldy]

I too would love to fly LE but would / could not put my family through the financial stress of $27,000/yr. (for patrol back when I interviewed many years ago). It's still only 35K now...it's a joke!

 

Just venting....thanks!

 

 

Where do you get these numbers? I got back from B2V a couple weeks ago, several agencies were trying to "steal" current POST certified (State of CA cert) people. Starting wages were around 70K, and thats before overtime and court time. Flying is a bonus position so a few extra bucks. Agencies are all different, some require that you have a Commercial helo and 5 years to apply.

 

For the people I know doing it...its really the dream job for them.

[Crusty Old Dude]

For many DEA Airwing positions, a PPL is all that is required.

AH, so kind of like the discussion you and I had about the military chances then. You get in, and then see if you can snag a pilot slot. Makes sense.

 

How about the LE angle? I seem to remember that it was you and I that had the discussion on why being an officer for x years was important. Don't those positions require a significant amount of flying time (local LE spots)?

[Crusty Old Dude]

I too would love to fly LE but would / could not put my family through the financial stress of $27,000/yr. (for patrol back when I interviewed many years ago). It's still only 35K now...it's a joke!

 

Just venting....thanks!

Where do you get these numbers? I got back from B2V a couple weeks ago, several agencies were trying to "steal" current POST certified (State of CA cert) people. Starting wages were around 70K, and thats before overtime and court time. Flying is a bonus position so a few extra bucks. Agencies are all different, some require that you have a Commercial helo and 5 years to apply.

 

For the people I know doing it...its really the dream job for them.

What LE agencies are those? The last LE org. that I knew that hired in at 70K starting was San Jose and Santa Clara PD (CA). CHP at that time was still only paying about $39-42K (?) during academy. The big difference with CA orgs is that they often run their own academies, which is actually worth something in and of itself.

 

But where are you seeing this kind of starting salary elsewhere? Seattle?

[zemogman]

Where do you get these numbers?

 

The starting salary for a Miami Dade Police Officer is currently $34,829.34 with a max salary of 60,612.24 as seen on the Miami Dade County Web Site --- Here's the link: http://www.miamidade.gov/emprel/pay_plan/P_PAYRANGE.htm

Scroll down to Job Posting # 004201 on the link titled "Police Officer"

 

City of Miami is a little more...(job post from their web site below)

Here's the link: http://www.miami-police.org/MIAMIPD/career...pt=Careers&

 

2. POLICE OFFICER (Basic Recruit)

(This position is Non-exempt under FLSA)

NOTE: Per Article 18.3 of the FOP contract, “All new hires in the classification of Police Recruit shall be paid five (5%) percent per month less than Step 1 of the salary range of the classification of Police Officer until the recruit graduates from the police academy and passes the state certification exam. At which time such bargaining unit member shall be eligible to be paid at step 1 of salary range. The period of probationary service shall be not less than eighteen (18) months nor more than twenty-four (24) months, unless extended by the department…..” The annualized wage rate during the academy and until the State certification exam is passed is $41,232. Applicants will be hired in the classification of Police Officer-Probationary (Occ. Code 5003), and upon successful completion of the academy and the state examination will be promoted to the classification of Police Officer (Occ. Code 5005). Per article 18.2 of FOP contract. A one time FDLE certification bonus of $1,648 is to be provided to probationary employees upon completion of probation regardless of when his/her probation ends.

 

Starting Salary: $43,293 annually* (See Note Above) Maximum Salary: $58,115 annually Starting salary does not include $2,000 Crime Prevention Pay. (Maximum Salary including longevity steps is $74,252 annually)

 

Closing Date: Friday, June 15, 2007 Exam Data: August 8, 9, 10th, 2007. Location and

 

Those are the numbers...and they are low...very low! I know there is OT, I know their is court time, etc. I have several friends that are police officers and they love their jobs. My argument is simply that they are under paid. Their are some municipalities or townships that start a bit higher, but even Coral Gables (a relatively wealthy community and city) is 38K as shown below.

 

SALARY: Non-Certified: $38,859 Annually. Certified: $42,842 - $68,124 Annually (Salary includes longevity. Starting salary depends on experience.) Here's the link --- http://www.coralgables.com/CGWeb/news.aspx?newsid=160

 

So as you can see (Goldy and Crusty)...I'm not exagerating. Our police officers and emergency personnel are underpaid and it's nothing short of a travesty. And believe it or not...the starting salary when I interviewed in 1995 or 1996 (don't remember) was $27,000.

 

I applaud all those municipalities that start at 70K...that's great!

 

BTW --- You can see the Miami Dade EMS Pilot salaries here: http://www.miamidade.gov/emprel/pay_plan/F_payrange.htm

Job Posting #004113 thru 004115 "Fire Department Helicopter Pilot" --- Couldn't find the MDPD Pilot Salary.

[Helo-Pilot]

Even at 70k a year, you need to look at the cost of living wherever they are.

[palmfish]

AH, so kind of like the discussion you and I had about the military chances then. You get in, and then see if you can snag a pilot slot. Makes sense.

 

How about the LE angle? I seem to remember that it was you and I that had the discussion on why being an officer for x years was important. Don't those positions require a significant amount of flying time (local LE spots)?

 

All I can say is, due to the nature of the LE industry, you really can't join an agency with the INTENTION of flying for them - because it may never happen. When I got into federal law enforcement, it was because I wanted to be a federal agent, not a pilot. I was flying in the Army Reserves and satisfied with the 100 or so hours/year I was flying. Flying truly was just a hobby for me for many years, and I wasn't sure that I would even enjoy doing it as a full-time career. When I went to the DEA, I thought I might like to join the airwing eventually, but I didn't join with that goal in mind - and I wasn't willing to uproot my family and move to another city just to get on board. I spent 10 years working the street before deciding to pursue a flying position, and I loved almost every day of it.

 

Every situation is different, and it is certainly possible to join a LE agency and be in the cockpit within 2 years. Just consider that law enforcement is a specialized career field that demands a lot of commitment, personal sacrifice, and frankly, a very specific set of personal attributes. When you are an LE pilot, it truly is 2 jobs in one - and you must be equally committed to both.

[PccAerocat]

Does anyone have an idea of what the age cap is for these ALE positions? I hear of so many companies wanting all your flight training done and so many hours by age 30. If a 4-year degree is required, is it worth it to start pursuing an ALE career at 27 if you still have 2 years of school left, including all your flight training? Does prior Federal employment, EMS and Firefighting service help you out in getting selected as a peace officer?