Another SSH Thread

[AZSSHVCTM]

Ive heard that story a dozen times. The infamously magic "2 week" limitation on posting funds. Youll call back tomorrow and they will tell you "two weeks". you will call back in two weeks and they will tell you "two weeks". maybe another 6 months of this and you will have your money back (AFTER the SSH/banking partnership has made a grand or two of interest off your money in whatever third party account they have your money in)....to be continued....

Oops did I say third party??? I may have meant 4th...or even 5th party....

 

I wouldn't be too quick to say SSH is earning any interest off of this. Remember, they did as they said, and returned the check. I have confirmed with AES that the check was returned and is in their possession. That in there, lies the problem. If they have the check, why in hell would it take two weeks to post to my account. These are questions to which I hope to have answers tomorrow. I have my own issues with SSH, but think sometimes that too many general assumptions are made toward them. Don't get me wrong, I think their business model and techniques are completely F'ed, but in my case, i don't beleive they are sitting on my loan, raking in the interest. They have provided proof to me that they did return the loan, which i confirmed with the bank. My problem is now with the bank.

[danter]

I wouldn't be too quick to say SSH is earning any interest off of this. Remember, they did as they said, and returned the check. I have confirmed with AES that the check was returned and is in their possession. That in there, lies the problem. If they have the check, why in hell would it take two weeks to post to my account. These are questions to which I hope to have answers tomorrow. I have my own issues with SSH, but think sometimes that too many general assumptions are made toward them. Don't get me wrong, I think their business model and techniques are completely F'ed, but in my case, i don't beleive they are sitting on my loan, raking in the interest. They have provided proof to me that they did return the loan, which i confirmed with the bank. My problem is now with the bank.

 

This is the same thing that Universal helicopters is doing. They have this scam down good. Seems like I am the only one that is complaining about them. Hopefully the people that trained with them will come to their senses and get their money back.

I have sent letters to the bbb, ag, gephardt, senator, consumer protection, congressman, and newspapers. Not one of them are willing to help and I have been complaining for over 2 years. I am trying to find a good lawyer right now. Through friends and people from work, I have discouraged 3 prospective students from going to universal. Hopefully I have discouraged more by posting my complaint on VR.

 

Good Luck to you.

[frmersshstdnt]

I wouldn't be too quick to say SSH is earning any interest off of this. Remember, they did as they said, and returned the check. I have confirmed with AES that the check was returned and is in their possession. That in there, lies the problem. If they have the check, why in hell would it take two weeks to post to my account. These are questions to which I hope to have answers tomorrow. I have my own issues with SSH, but think sometimes that too many general assumptions are made toward them. Don't get me wrong, I think their business model and techniques are completely F'ed, but in my case, i don't beleive they are sitting on my loan, raking in the interest. They have provided proof to me that they did return the loan, which i confirmed with the bank. My problem is now with the bank.

Ok, we will see. I hope the best for you. Just keep us informed, because I seriously doubt it will proove to be a problem on the banks end. If anything it would most likely be a problem with the bank trying to get SSH to send them a check that will actually clear.

[i4iq]

Does anyone know if being a member of AOPA cover students in a situation like this? Apparently, their premiums cover all kinds of legal fees and advice...

[blave]

Does anyone know if being a member of AOPA cover students in a situation like this? Apparently, their premiums cover all kinds of legal fees and advice...

 

Only if you enroll in AOPA's legal assistance program, PRIOR to having any issues that might need their help.

 

The basic AOPA membership does not cover this sort of thing.

 

Dave Blevins

[i4iq]

Thanks Dave

[alasvegascfi]

I would be asking this Bank.... to type you up a letter stating that they got a check from SSH AND that you are cleared off all responsibility of that 23,000.

 

They should have NO ISSUE with that, since they say they got the 23,000 from SSH.

 

At least if you have that, they can take 6months if they want too.... You have a written document from the bank clearing you...

 

I would not trust them, if SSH is in cahoots with them in the first place.

 

Why is it that some people get money back, while others from the same school do not????

[frmersshstdnt]

I would be asking this Bank.... to type you up a letter stating that they got a check from SSH AND that you are cleared off all responsibility of that 23,000.

 

They should have NO ISSUE with that, since they say they got the 23,000 from SSH.

 

At least if you have that, they can take 6months if they want too.... You have a written document from the bank clearing you...

 

I would not trust them, if SSH is in cahoots with them in the first place.

 

Why is it that some people get money back, while others from the same school do not????

Of the two dozen or so people I know of, Im not aware of anyone who has gotten their money back within a year of withdrawing, and only two people who have gotten refunds at all (still being the innappropriate amount). This can be because of several reasons:

A) SSH pussyfoots on everything when it comes to giving people rightfully owed money for whatever reason they wish. It is widely assumed that SSH has questionable business interests not "forth-coming", where they tippy-toe the red-line when it comes to the legal obligations of giving money to those who it is due. Undeniably there has been instances where SSH has stepped over the legal red-line.

The students feels that the "Fees Statement" sent out by SSH requiring the student to sign and return is typically full of over-charges and duplicate flight times, ect., thus providing SSH with the oppurtunity to take several more months in correcting and reissuing or otherwsie resolving the situation.

C) Any other reason I have left out where SSH thinks it can use its self-imposed ideal as the pinnacle of everything good and right in the business, government, lawmaking, and law enforcment world.

[skiddz]

Of the two dozen or so people I know of, Im not aware of anyone who has gotten their money back within a year of withdrawing, and only two people who have gotten refunds at all (still being the innappropriate amount). This can be because of several reasons:

 

I think I'm one of these people. I did finally get SOME of my money back, but am still nearly $8500 short *AND* haven't seen a dime of the interest their attorney (Mark Cook) agreed SSH would pay me for SSH dragging their feet.

 

A) SSH pussyfoots on everything when it comes to giving people rightfully owed money for whatever reason they wish. It is widely assumed that SSH has questionable business interests not "forth-coming", where they tippy-toe the red-line when it comes to the legal obligations of giving money to those who it is due. Undeniably there has been instances where SSH has stepped over the legal red-line.

 

Check this out. Here's the "official" explanation of SSH's refund <cough> "policy" right from Jerry's greasy little fingers, quoted directly from an e-mail he sent to me dated 5/20 - a MONTH after I quit SSH:

 

"We have always made it our practice to process refund credit to coincide with the next scheduled funding of the students class."

 

My attorney, when he read this, said, "That's bullshit, they can't hold your money like that."

 

 

The students feels that the "Fees Statement" sent out by SSH requiring the student to sign and return is typically full of over-charges and duplicate flight times, ect., thus providing SSH with the oppurtunity to take several more months in correcting and reissuing or otherwsie resolving the situation.

 

My first final statement was FULL of errors which I corrected and returned. The 2nd statement was correct and I signed it and the letter that came with it that stated I'd be receiving a tick over $38,000 back. The check I got was around $29,800.00 and that took MONTHS to get and I have a papertrail of lies, lies and more lies - and a really cool voicemail from Chastity on 9/20 that said I'd be getting a check for the full amount "this Friday" which would have been 9/23. Didn't see an effing dime until a MONTH after that and it was short $8400.

 

C) Any other reason I have left out where SSH thinks it can use its self-imposed ideal as the pinnacle of everything good and right in the business, government, lawmaking, and law enforcment world.

 

Where are all these lucrative SSH contracts??? In the time I was with SSH I heard of exactly TWO commercial missions from that location, both photo flights. No Border Patrol work Jerry said was " a done deal", no cruise ship work, nothing SSH ever said was in the works ever came to fruition. Purveyors of Bovine Excrement to say the least.

[alasvegascfi]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh.

 

I will say it again...

 

Why has NO ONE gone to the News Media and the District Att. Office?

 

You walk into a news station with 10 ex-students and all of your documentations, copy's of every post that you can find on SSH and have all of your ducks in a row... THEY WILL LISTEN TO YOU...

 

I would hit EVERY news station in your town and the DA, the BBB, the Mayors Office, City Council....

 

You name it... But you will be suprised of how fast, DA's and other officials work, once the news media is on their ass...

 

DO NOT HESITATE..... I got out of their 6yrs ago, when they just had one school and maybe 5 helicopters.

 

But the rest of you are "current" with the happenings.

 

Get a handful of students... Get your paperwork together, copy of every SSH post on the net, and get your ass to the News Media.

 

You will be a hero, when you put an end to all of this...

 

YOU CAN MAKE IT HAPPEN

[AZSSHVCTM]

OK, I just want to give everyone/anyone who is interested an update on my situation with SSH. First a little back ground information. I was originally planning to start with SSH in Arizona on February 8, when I ran across this website. I read every single post I could find on SSH, and was a little disturbed with all the negative feelings towards SSH. This made me have doubts as to whether SSH was the way to go for my flight training. I started looking in to SSH and came to the personal decision that they weren't for me.

 

One week before class started, I contacted SSH and told them I'd like to withdraw. I was told to fax them a letter stating this and it would be taken care of. I did this, and was withdrawn without ever starting. About a week later, I got a letter for Student Loan Express saying that my first disbursement of my loan, $23,300, had been disbursed to SSH on February 1. I immediately called SSH to make sure that check was returned to SLE immediately. A week after that, I received an email from Chastity Malley (Anyone trying to get a refund know who she is) stating that the check was cut and mailed on February 16. I let 2 weeks pass then I called SLE to verify the check was received. They said it had not, and my balance was $23,700+. I immediately called and got Chastity on the phone. She said she would have to check with accounting to verify if the check was mailed. About an hour later I received an email from Chastity that said the check had cleared the bank on February 23. She even sent me a copy of the check from SSH's banking website.

 

Now it seems the problem is on the side of SLE. I called back and got someone different on the line. She told me the $23,300 check had been received from SSH, but had not posted to my account, which is why I had the $23,700+ balance still. She said it could be about 2 weeks before the money posted and when it did, the $400 in interest and fees would be waived. I would owe $0. I received a phone call from SLE yesterday saying that the money posted, and the fees had been waived. My balance is now $0. I should receive a letter in the mail in 7 - 10 business days to confirm this.

 

I am one of the lucky ones, who has been able to get my refund without too much trouble. I am not out of the dark yet. I need that piece of paper in my hand saying it is finished before I will be completely satified. I definately sympathise with all of you out there having trouble getting your money back. I just wanted to let you know that it can be done.

[frmersshstdnt]

Wow! I guess they are trying to get their act together pending the class action suit.

[Helistudent]

OK, I just want to give everyone/anyone who is interested an update on my situation with SSH. First a little back ground information. I was originally planning to start with SSH in Arizona on February 8, when I ran across this website. I read every single post I could find on SSH, and was a little disturbed with all the negative feelings towards SSH. This made me have doubts as to whether SSH was the way to go for my flight training. I started looking in to SSH and came to the personal decision that they weren't for me.

 

One week before class started, I contacted SSH and told them I'd like to withdraw. I was told to fax them a letter stating this and it would be taken care of. I did this, and was withdrawn without ever starting. About a week later, I got a letter for Student Loan Express saying that my first disbursement of my loan, $23,300, had been disbursed to SSH on February 1. I immediately called SSH to make sure that check was returned to SLE immediately. A week after that, I received an email from Chastity Malley (Anyone trying to get a refund know who she is) stating that the check was cut and mailed on February 16. I let 2 weeks pass then I called SLE to verify the check was received. They said it had not, and my balance was $23,700+. I immediately called and got Chastity on the phone. She said she would have to check with accounting to verify if the check was mailed. About an hour later I received an email from Chastity that said the check had cleared the bank on February 23. She even sent me a copy of the check from SSH's banking website.

 

Now it seems the problem is on the side of SLE. I called back and got someone different on the line. She told me the $23,300 check had been received from SSH, but had not posted to my account, which is why I had the $23,700+ balance still. She said it could be about 2 weeks before the money posted and when it did, the $400 in interest and fees would be waived. I would owe $0. I received a phone call from SLE yesterday saying that the money posted, and the fees had been waived. My balance is now $0. I should receive a letter in the mail in 7 - 10 business days to confirm this.

 

I am one of the lucky ones, who has been able to get my refund without too much trouble. I am not out of the dark yet. I need that piece of paper in my hand saying it is finished before I will be completely satified. I definately sympathise with all of you out there having trouble getting your money back. I just wanted to let you know that it can be done.

 

 

I have been attending SSH Mesa for the past four weeks, and lovin' it!

Everything that I read in these threads before classes started turned out to be false, I was NEVER promised a job, I did not pay up front, but like yourself knew that the pay as you go plan includes three draws of 23k, they have helicopters sitting around everyday all day long and four new 22's just came in! Next week we will have enough sim hours to start flying. YOU'R MISSIN' OUT MAN!

[fry]

Everything that I read in these threads before classes started turned out to be false, I was NEVER promised a job, I did not pay up front, but like yourself knew that the pay as you go plan includes three draws of 23k,

 

Best of luck to you I hope it works out. A question, did you shop around before deciding on SSH? If so, why did you determine that SSH's program at $69.9k for 200 flight hours is better than other flight schools in the area that charge about $50k for the same 200 hours? And, just to clarify, you are in fact paying in advance with the three draws verses a pay-as-you-fly arrangement.

[fry]

For Helistudent,

 

Are either of these true for your contract with SSH? The posts are from former SSH students (at the "SSH" thread on this forum) responding to the question, "Is it true that SSH charges the students a fixed 6% of the total contract amount over and above the charges for ground, sim and flight instruction?"

 

"No, They keep a statement of flight time recieved. They tack on $1200 for books, $3000 for ground school and $125/hr for flight sim time, then $3000-$10000 for contract cancellation. $285 per hour for dual R-22, $225 per hour for R-22 solo. R-44 unknown. So it doesnt matter how long youve been in the program, only how much flight time you have." (frmersshstdnt)

 

"Actually, the 6% rule is true, but it is not 6% it is 10%. All the new contracts for new SSH students state that if they drop out they will be charged 10% of the total loan value for every month they are in. It comes out to about $6,000 a month. I have been contacted by one individual who did not have one hour in the R-22 and had been in the sim and ground school for 10 months and wanted to drop due to not having flown and paying in all that money. SSH informed him not only was he not getting a refund but he owed them the remaining balance of the loan." (sshclassaction)

[frmersshstdnt]

I have been attending SSH Mesa for the past four weeks, and lovin' it!

Everything that I read in these threads before classes started turned out to be false, I was NEVER promised a job, I did not pay up front, but like yourself knew that the pay as you go plan includes three draws of 23k, they have helicopters sitting around everyday all day long and four new 22's just came in! Next week we will have enough sim hours to start flying. YOU'R MISSIN' OUT MAN!

 

How many helicopters total? How many students? Take note that SSH will have ALL of your $70k within 3 months, it is not a pay-as-you-go plan. It is an upfront plan, but due to limitations on the lenders to distribute large sums at once, they have to split it up as stated. $70k in three months is the fastest method of getting the loan from the lender to SSH, while still following lenders regulations.

 

Even though I try to warn people of SSH's past and presents scams, I still hope you and ALL SSH students the best in their training and that they are able and willing to make the best of it and possibly complete with satisfaction. I really honestly tried very hard to make the best of it, but under my particular circumstances of being lied (or "misrepresented" for the politically correct term) to about the MGIB and completion time, SSH and I failed to make my training prosper. But unfortunately unless things are REALLY turning around at SSH I think your mind will be changed come 10 months down the road when you still dont have a private rating and are in the hole $25000 or more. You just might be able to pull it off though. Keep us updated.

 

You are correct when saying SSH does not "promise" you a job (according to the contract), However I guarantee 90% of the students would not have attended the seminars, thus would not have signed up, if their radio solicitations did not misrepresent the fact that it was a "job/career oppurtunity" seminar, thus directly implying that they are explicitly training for direct hire.

Take it this way....If a car salesman shows you a Denali and gives his sales pitch about it and you decide to buy it, after you sign the contract for $40000 and you walk toward your car he then hands you the keys to an Escort and directs you towards it. Are you really going to assume it is your fault for not reading the entire contract in the 5 minutes he gives you, or are you going to turn around and fault him for typing up the contract wrong?....then he says....well, you should have read the contract before signing it. Lets see who wins in court.

[Azwolf]

AZwolf,

 

I am also in Arizona and am having similar problems with SSH. I was going to start with SSH on Feb. 8, but wized up and dropped one week before the class started. My loan was disbursed on Feb 1, and i was told by Chastity that a check was cut to return the $23,300 to the lender on Feb 15. I just spoke with the bank today, and they said they have not received the money. I spoke to Chastity and she says that the check was cut on Feb 16, and it cleared the bank on Feb. 23. I then called the bank back, and they said that the check was received, but for some reason i still have a balance of $23,700+. I am actually still on the phone (waiting on hold) trying to figure out what is going on. Something is definatly not right about how things are run with both of these company's. I just thought i would get it out there that you are not the only one here in AZ, (Mesa?) who is having trouble with this. Let me know if you have any ideas.

 

Sorry to hear you have the same problems. Chassity has not called back just yet. She called me once before but no check has landed for me yet. This is insane. I really do wonder about the relationship between AES and SSH. I remember when I called AES (student loan xpress) - the tried to forward me to the SSH finance department.. I will check this post every couple of days. As far as ideas, I would give them the 2 weeks in your case. There is no excuse for it to go any further if they have thier money, but I would call them again (cellphone on high with a tape recorder). Make sure you say the date, catch their name, and state that "this conversation is being recorded". It will be admissible in court that way.

[tomw]

I was also looking into attending Silver State Helicopters, but in San Diego. I went to their seminar a couple months ago, it was very inticing. I tried to enroll but they would not want to interview before me submitting and getting accepted for a loan of nearly $70,000! I insisted that I did not want to do that yet until talking with someone one-on-one. They said they would try to set up a time and I gave them all contact info (email, mail, work and cell phone), but they never contacted me. I mean, in any business if you have a prospective customer considering dishing out $70,000 wouldnt you at least meet with them, right? In the mean time I was scamming* (for lack of better spelling and usage) and I came across this joyous post about a student and Silver State Helicopters (scroll down towards mid-page after opening link). Any comments?:

 

http://jeepcruzer.blogspot.com/2005_10_01_...er_archive.html

 

It is precisely how I felt upon leaving the "employment" seminar.

[AZSSHVCTM]

I have been attending SSH Mesa for the past four weeks, and lovin' it!

Everything that I read in these threads before classes started turned out to be false, I was NEVER promised a job, I did not pay up front, but like yourself knew that the pay as you go plan includes three draws of 23k, they have helicopters sitting around everyday all day long and four new 22's just came in! Next week we will have enough sim hours to start flying. YOU'R MISSIN' OUT MAN!

 

Helistudent,

 

I am glad to hear that everything is going well with you at SSH and you are enjoying your training. You are actually not the first student at the Mesa location who is having a good experience. I actually have a couple of friends who started classes last October. Last I heard they were supposed to be testing for their PPL's sometime soon. However, even with the good references for SSH, I feel like I dodged a bullet by getting out when I did, at least for my situation. After talking to one of my friends, I found out some things about the training that they don't tell you in the siminar.

 

First, we were told that about 40 students would be accepted into the class, when in all actuallity there were going to be two classes with 40 students, for a total of 80 new students. When adding this to the students already flying from the October classes, and any classes that started prior to that, and I figured there would be anywhere from 100-150 students needing to fly 3 time a week at 2 hours each. I just didn't see how SSH was going to be able to provide enough aircraft for all that flying. You said that they just got four new 22's, so i may have been wrong about the flying, but it was just too much money for me to risk. Just curious, how many student's are in your class, and did any other classes start at the same time as yours. When i called the school about the number of student's starting, they told me it would be closer to 70, not 80, but that was still more than the 40 we were told about in the seminar.

 

Second, we were told that even though we aren't guaranteed a job when we graduate, there has only been one instance where they didn't hire a student, and that was because he was goofing off the day before graduation and crashed a heli. Well, that may have been true in the past, but not any more. Did you know that SSH is now requireing a certification of CFII in order to get hired as an instructor. The $69,900 you front for training only takes you to CFI. You have to aquire more training on your own, at your own added cost in order to get to a CFII. Doesn't sound like you even have a chance of getting hired, at least for quite a while, after training to me.

 

Third, i found out after withdrawing that the total you will be paying almost $190,000. That is assuming of course you pay over the full 20 years and only make the mininum monthly payment. That is a lot of interest if you ask me. The interest rate came to 10%, and was successable to change. The rate was set at 5% above the standard rate. They don't mention that in the seminar either.

 

What it basically came down to was I fealt like I was rushed/pushed into signing the enrollment and loan documents after i was approved for the loan. The guy I enterviewed with told me he was impressed that at the age of 21 i was able to get approved for the loan without a co-applicant. This was a big red flag for me. Sounds like all you need to get into SSH is good credit. They made it seem like this was a once in a lifetime opportunity and if i didn't act now it would pass me by. I wasn't allowed time to fully analyse the situation. I hadn't looked into any other schools. I hadn't even really taken the time to look into SSH. Once i did, i decided it was best for me to pass on SSH and look at all of the options. I am young and have the time to really research and make the best desision.

 

Again, i am glad things are going well for you at SSH, and hope everything continues to go well.

 

 

Sorry to hear you have the same problems. Chassity has not called back just yet. She called me once before but no check has landed for me yet. This is insane. I really do wonder about the relationship between AES and SSH. I remember when I called AES (student loan xpress) - the tried to forward me to the SSH finance department.. I will check this post every couple of days. As far as ideas, I would give them the 2 weeks in your case. There is no excuse for it to go any further if they have thier money, but I would call them again (cellphone on high with a tape recorder). Make sure you say the date, catch their name, and state that "this conversation is being recorded". It will be admissible in court that way.

 

AZWolf,

 

How is everything going for you on getting your money returned to AES? I am happy to announce that my full disbursement of $23,300 has been returned, and all origination fees and accrued interest have been voided. My balance is $0. I received a letter in the mail from AES stating this yesterday. I tell you, it is a load off my sholders. I hope you are having the same success as me. I finally got to the point where i had one point of contact. I was able to work with that one person everytime i called. She even called me a few times with updates. She was very helpful. If you are still having trouble, feel free to email me at bigjake12_02@hotmail.com. I would be happy to help in any way i can. Let me know how things are going.

[Azwolf]

Heya,

no luck yet. Chassity said she mailed the check, but it sounds like the same line you were given. They may be paying me back, but it is sure taking a long time. Considering we had the same situation- I expect they will pay me; however, it does not excuse the length of time this has taken. Nor does it excuse that they submitted the loan after I requested that they do not. They did the same to you. I think they really need to change thier withdrawl policy to avoid serious trouble in the future. My college gave me my money back the same day when I dropped a class, so why cant SSH?

[AZSSHVCTM]

Heya,

no luck yet. Chassity said she mailed the check, but it sounds like the same line you were given. They may be paying me back, but it is sure taking a long time. Considering we had the same situation- I expect they will pay me; however, it does not excuse the length of time this has taken. Nor does it excuse that they submitted the loan after I requested that they do not. They did the same to you. I think they really need to change thier withdrawl policy to avoid serious trouble in the future. My college gave me my money back the same day when I dropped a class, so why cant SSH?

 

I agree! There is no reason for it to take so long. I am just glad that it is finally over, and i didn't loose anything from there F*** up.

 

Good luck to you!

[Milo Morai]

I expect they will pay me; however, it does not excuse the length of time this has taken. Nor does it excuse that they submitted the loan after I requested that they do not. They did the same to you. I think they really need to change thier withdrawl policy to avoid serious trouble in the future. My college gave me my money back the same day when I dropped a class, so why cant SSH?

 

Hi all been lurking here for a couple weeks, since I went to the Salem, OR seminar and almost got in the SSH trap. (Thanks for keeping me out BTW)

 

I can answer why it takes so long. They have that money in the bank. It is drawing interest for every day it is there, period. That is the reason.

I've had a boss do this with paychecks and he said that's why he does it.

 

Keep bugging them DAILY to return it if htat doesn't work after a week go to HOURLY. Only if you actually have a refund coming though.

 

Milo

 

PS I'm looking at going to Precision in Newburg after touring the place and meeting most of the people there. Now to just get that financing.

[flying high]

Milo, Ive got a friend training there at Precision and he is having a good time . Have you checked into Leading Edge down in Bend?

[Milo Morai]

Milo, Ive got a friend training there at Precision and he is having a good time . Have you checked into Leading Edge down in Bend?

 

No I haven't. Bend is a bit far for me. I'll be commuting from Salem. I ahve the support of my family to do this but staying in bend while training would be a bit much for them. Still working on getting financing.

 

The CFII that gave us the tour was Jaimie. Real nice guy.

[Azwolf]

I agree! There is no reason for it to take so long. I am just glad that it is finally over, and i didn't loose anything from there F*** up.

 

Good luck to you!

 

you wont believe this but 3 news on your side just called me. I hope they take my story. It would sure help everyone who has been wronged by SSH. Lucky for me, I have the documentation, so I hope they run with it. Wish me luck guys!