How many of you guys have crashed or have had a close call

[Guest rookie101]

Hello again everyone,

In every job there are risks that come with that job. These risks can be avoided or caused by those or the things around you. I realize that in the business of flying a helicopter there are many, many things that can attribute to these risks. Now, I have yet to sign up for my training, but I am hell bent on becoming a helicopter pilot and I know the risks I am taking, like I could get myself killed and hurt others while flying this thing. I was wondering how many of you guys in here have actually crashed a helicopter, your fault or someone else caused it, or saw a helicopter crash. This is probably an issue all of you guys probably hate thinking about, I know I do and I haven't even got an hour of flight time, but if you posted and then give advice on how to not end up in that situation or what to do I would greatly appreciate it and any other trainee or some young wanna-be. In training I will receive instruction on how to not end up in that situation and how to fix the situation so I don't end up crashing, but it dosen't hurt to hear what to do from a person who had the misfortune of experiencing it first hand or even watching a crash.

Thanks to all who post,

 

rookie101

[crashresidue]

Cheers rookie,

 

Why does this question ALWAYS come up? One of the gun forums I visit just had a poster asking how many of us had ever been shot - note the similarity?

 

My handle says it all - TOO many times!

 

You want advice, OK, here goes.

 

If you can't see where you're going - don't GO!

 

Make sure you have enough fuel to get to your destination and run through the cool down. Fuel starvation is NOT an option!

 

Don't let your ego bite you in the *ss. If your knuckles get white, then get the H*ll OUT!

 

ALWAYS do a high recon followed by a low one. NEVER take it for granted that there isn't something out there that wants to kill you on your approach.

 

Always plan for the worst - it's gonna happen to you sometime.

 

Airspeed and altitude are your friends - NEVER give either one of them away with out a planned escape route.

 

Always do power checks - it lets you get a handle on your engines health.

 

LISTEN to your a/c - I've ALWAYS heard a problem before it ever showed up on a guage or warning light.

 

Those orange balls you see on some powerlines - they're "pilot tombstones" - somebody DIED to get them put there. Don't add your's.

 

If you are about to crash - fly the d*mned thing as far into the crash as you can.

 

Always brief your passengers/ground crew about what to expect if something goes wrong. If you've got commo with them - remember, the worst words you'll ever say are "impact imminent". Those same two words will also keep your people alive through the crash.

 

Plan on being lied to about each and every load's weight.

 

What you don't know won't HURT you, it will KILL you!

 

If you smoke a motor and have no other alternative but trees, always put the advancing blade into the trees first - this keeps the X/M from coming forward and visiting with you in the cockpit.

 

That fire extinguisher that's in the a/c - it's best used to "put out people",'cause it ain't gonna do sh*t about putting out an aircraft that's burning.

 

If your working a long-line, every time your skids hit the ground, button off the line. It only takes a second to re-attach it and it's a lot better than getting it snagged on something because YOU forgot you had it attached.

 

OK, somebody else pick this up and list things I've forgotten.

 

Gentle winds,

cr

[Bladed Sun]

Always file a flight plan.

 

Always take a fuel sample.

 

Always do a preflight check, even if it's your fourth flight of the day in the same aircraft.

 

When flying in the mountains, watch for lines from logging crews.

 

Never give up, continue to fly the aircraft.

[West Coaster]

Hooked a skid in a R-22 doing auto-rotations... damn near rolled but stayed upright thanks to a last second save by the instructor.

 

A guy I trained with was killed flying his Enstrom 6 months after he got his private license. Seems the tail rotor departed the machine during flight.

 

Another friend did roll a R-22. Wrecked it but he walked away.

[delorean]

Every flight I ever did with a student was a close call.......

 

CFIs? Would you not agree? LOL.

[Huey]

Just one biggie.

Details on a previous post - circa 2003

[Bladed Sun]

I forgot to post my close call earlier.

 

It was with a client, a environment survey guy, we were circling the survey area going up a mountainside through a draw. When, a wire from a long departed logging crew sprung into view. All I did was a crop dusting turn, or so that's what I've been told it was; nose up, collective down, and a right pedal turn. Anyway, it scared the s**t out of me, but, fortunately, the guy didn't seem to notice.

 

Even gave me a tip afterward.

[PhotoFlyer]

I have had a couple. The most memorable was during my CFI training.

 

We were doing 180 fulldowns to the runway (17 @ HQZ if your interested). There was one other F/W in the pattern, we were right traffic, he was left. I don't know what kind of pattern the F/W did, but he called left crosswind as we were entering our 180. By the time we had touched down, and then gotten the RPM back up he was on short final. My instructor looked back to see where he was while I was getting ready to pick up, and said "SH*T MOVE!" I yanked up on the collective, hard left cyclic, and did sort of a sideways quickstop when we were clear of the runway, which wasn't a moment to soon because that F/W touched down where we had been sitting 3 seconds earlier. We just sat there for a minute, catching our breath, when the F/W gets on the radio and sheepishly says "sorry, didn't see ya there" in a thick southern drawl.

 

I can only hope nothing like that ever happens again.

[Guest rookie101]

All right, thanks very much to all you guys who have posted, keep 'em coming. Thanks especially to crashresidue for the long list of what to do and the finishing touches by Bladed Sun. Sorry if this question is a bit annoying, this is probably a "beaten over" topic, but I imgaine that most rookies will always end up asking this same question so I might as well get it out of my system and besides, other rookies can come here to see the response so you guys won't have to do it over again . Thanks again,

 

rookie101

[West Coaster]

No worries mate. Learning from the mistakes and misfortunes of others never gets old.

 

For example, in the case of my friend and his pax killed in the Enstrom;

Could be pilot error due to an improper pre-flight inspection, or could have been a mechanical failure. Not sure if the investigation has been concluded yet. To his credit he did manage to steer clear of a farm house before he impacted the ground. Sacrificed his life for those inside it.

 

The roll over of the R-22;

Pilot error due to improper communication between instructor and student while practicing a hovering auto, resulting in the dreaded Dynamic Roll.

[Wally]

Former Army primary IP, 70-71. Yep, seen a few. Mid-airs are the messiest, avoid them at all costs.

Smacked one doing 180 autos to a point, with a student, in gusty winds. If you want to know what a helicopter crash is like- Get in a big industrial clothes dryer with a rotary lawn mower; start the lawn mower; have somebody push the dryer off the roof...

Later, had a drive shaft failure, H269, that scared the crap outta some cows in the pasture/new LZ- and me. A minute or two earlier, it was all big, ugly, pine trees.

Sometimes, survival is the best you can accomplish. Accept it, and don't lose everything trying to save everything. Accepting the sacrifice of the helicopter is a really *big thing*. The ego has to go before reality can be appreciated. You'd better have a really good reason to be there.

[Wesp]

3 engine failures in 2.5 months, students really f*cking up, cracks in blades etc. It's never a safe job.

 

One thing to really watch is : tracking, when the blades are to far out of track the thing won't autorotate!!! I was having enginge problems at one stage and since I was over the airfield entered an autorotation. The blades where out of track and the helicopter started jumping like a horse and rotor rpm was dropping like a rock. I was falling out of the sky, I was at 1000 ft. when it started. Then I discovered the engine was still running. I brought it back in with a lot of backfiring etc it came back and I got my rotor RPM back and got it back under control. And ended up safe, it was a close call however.

 

A week ago I was on a training flight and just after crosswind heavy low frequency vibrations, severe to say the least. Landed immediately. Turned out there was a big rip in the glassfibre of one of the blades with a crack underneath. Shouldn't have been much longer.

[500E]

Wesp

3 engine fails, blades cracking, rotor out of track so bad it wont AUTO ?? & all in 2.5 months.

Find some where else to fly, the next one could kill you.

If it was out of track that much the vibs must have so bad with power, that it was more than due a trip to the Workshops

We dont fly the 500s or 300. if vibs are of any concequence it goes to service NOW.

[Gomer Pylot]

I started flying in 1968, and haven't crahed yet. I probably have between 12,000 and 13,000 hrs (stopped counting long ago) and have had no accidents, no crashes, just a few self- or copilot-induced 'oops' moments. I have had a number of friends killed, though. Flying helicopters isn't as dangerous as crab fishing off Alaska, but it's certainly more dangerous than computer programming. We kill ourselves in alarming numbers, and most of the fatal crashes are caused by pilots doing stupid things. Any time someone says "Watch this", duck and cover.

[Guest pokey]

What about ducks? and / or birds? When i was 1st learning to fly in the late 80's, i recall the conversation of birds coming up many times--(and still does too) Do you try to avoid them,?, OR since they are much more maneauverable than any aircraft, continue on your path & let them take care of the collision avoidance? Most say leave it up to the birds. Well, one day flying a 300 about 5 feet off the river, i was coming up oon 2 mallards in the water, they saw me & took to flight about 30 yards in front of me. My thinking immediately went to the "let them avoid me" mode---which they did, one took off to my left, the other to my right. The guy who went right decided to then turn left & join his friend by flying over the top of my rotor, very drastic vibration when he hit the blade & the helicoper rolled verry violently to the left. I remember seeing the disc come to w/in (looked like anyhows) inches of the water. There was a small island in the river & i contemplated landing & checking out the damage, but the vibration cleared up, & i remeber thinkin "HTF am i gunna get this thing off that island IF there is substantial damage" I decided to fly up the bank & land in a field,,all was going fine & the airport was only 5 miles away now so i decided to go for it. After i had landed in front of the hangar, got a ladder to check out the damage, the gal i was giving a ride to said "boy that sure was a fun ride" I thought she meant that sarcastically & was lucky to be alive! She had no clue we almost went swimming w/ a verry expensive ball of aluminum. BTW? the blades were ok, just blood & feathers all over 2 of them. I had been doing that "river ride" many times b4,,,, needless to say--that was my last.

 

Every flight I ever did with a student was a close call.......

 

CFIs? Would you not agree? LOL.

 

 

I am not a CFI Delorean, but a close friend of mine is, he taught me & i used to maintain his 300's. When we would talk about me getting my CFI he would reply "DO IT !! what other profession do you accept $$ from someone in return for them trying to kill you"

[Wesp]

Wesp

3 engine fails, blades cracking, rotor out of track so bad it wont AUTO ?? & all in 2.5 months.

Find some where else to fly, the next one could kill you.

If it was out of track that much the vibs must have so bad with power, that it was more than due a trip to the Workshops

We dont fly the 500s or 300. if vibs are of any concequence it goes to service NOW.

 

Yes, I I found a better place to fly . A Hiller 12 is never really smooth, and I didn't have much experience with them then, in fact it was the first I flew.

 

When you kept the RPM top of the green during flight and didn't fly too fast it wasn't even that bad.

 

There is by the way a difference between autorotation track and powered flight track.

[Gomer Pylot]

I try to avoid birds, but not aggressively. Down here they're everywhere - pelicans, seagulls, buzzards, and all sorts and sizes of birds fill the skies. I've hit many, but never any damage. One pilot I know had a gull come through the windshield into his face, but he survived it, because he was wearing sunglasses. I missed a goose by about 3 ft at 3AM once, in cruise flight. I've had birds come down through the rotors while running on platforms, and one made it without a feather being touched. Some exploded. You always have to keep an eye outside, because they're always around.

[warpig]

ive had the collective creep up on me while spooled up at 104.. picked up and spun 180 degrees, luckily i was in an open sod field. completely my fault for not rolling down. had a passenger hop out the other day and rolled the throttle on with his leg and i caught it just in time. and just the overall scares that you get as a cfi.

[G.WEIR]

I lost an engine coming out of a confined area. Got over the top of a shopping center and she started shutting down, my choice was a creek bed or a back yard with 6' chain link fence with 3 barbs on top. I went for the back yard. By the grace of God no damage. I looked behind me at my path and there was a tower I didn't see that I came over the top of. No damage to anything though.

 

Just remember you are in control of the bird, don't let anyone talk you into something that you aren't comfortable with or is unsafe. I have told clients I will not do that some don't mind others get huffy (oh well).

 

Bottom Line, I have a wife and kids at home, I'm going home at the end of my shift.

 

Keep flying safe,

 

G.Weir

[canook pilot]

Never had an engine failer, but lost my head once and part of one the other time.

Mast separtion on a 212 in the hover and a bearing let go in the head of a astar.

Not much left of either aircraft.

[crashresidue]

Come on now Dan - tell them the rest of the story.

 

Remember when ALL Bell 204, 205, and 212 airframes were grounded about 7 years ago.

 

Yep, Dan was strapped into the first mast failure and his hover - well, he fell through 150 ft trees to reach the ground.

 

One LUCKY canook!!!

 

Gentle winds,

Russ

[aaron]

In my short time as a pilot, all my close calls were a direct result of flying too low and nearly hitting power lines. Now I fly at least 700' AGL or higher when possible.

[canook pilot]

Well put Russ thanks.

 

By the way when do you go to work?

I head out at the end of the week.

 

 

 

Cheers,Dan

[flingwing206]

Dan was strapped into the first mast failure and his hover - well, he fell through 150 ft trees to reach the ground.

 

One LUCKY canook!!!

...depends on how you define luck, I guess

[Guest rookie101]

Greetings everyone,

I've read over what everyone has posted (thanks for posting) and I thought up another question. How badly does a crash hurt your reputation as a helicopter pilot and how does it effect employment and would it be possible for you to never be able for someone to get a job because of their rep. as a pilot.

Thanks to all who post

 

rookie101

Edited February 18, 2006 by rookie101