SSH

[alasvegascfi]

I am just curious how the SSH thread on the UTAH school / BBB has over 1,200 reads and a couple hundred replies... oops, I stand corrected it's 12,000 plus reads... That's 5 times higher then any other posts.

 

That's a lot of complaints or comments at 200 replies.

 

 

MY QUESTION IS.......... WHERE ARE THE SSH CFI'S.... ???????????????

 

 

WHY ARE THEY NOT COMMENTING??? IT'S NOT LIKE THEY HAVE TO USE THEIR REAL NAME HERE.

 

 

DO THE CFI'S AT SSH HAVE NOTHING TO SAY, + OR - , ON THE COMPANY THAT THEY WORK FOR?

 

 

AS A "PROFESSIONAL" CFI, LIKE WE ARE ALL SUPPOSED TO BE... YOU HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO DO WHAT'S RIGHT. THESE ARE YOUR STUDENTS THAT ARE COMPLAINING.

 

STAND UP YOU CFI'S.... WE WOULD LOVE TO HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT YOUR COMPANY

[frmersshstdnt]

I am just curious how the SSH thread on the UTAH school / BBB has over 1,200 reads and a couple hundred replies... oops, I stand corrected it's 12,000 plus reads... That's 5 times higher then any other posts.

 

That's a lot of complaints or comments at 200 replies.

MY QUESTION IS.......... WHERE ARE THE SSH CFI'S.... ???????????????

WHY ARE THEY NOT COMMENTING??? IT'S NOT LIKE THEY HAVE TO USE THEIR REAL NAME HERE.

DO THE CFI'S AT SSH HAVE NOTHING TO SAY, + OR - , ON THE COMPANY THAT THEY WORK FOR?

AS A "PROFESSIONAL" CFI, LIKE WE ARE ALL SUPPOSED TO BE... YOU HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO DO WHAT'S RIGHT. THESE ARE YOUR STUDENTS THAT ARE COMPLAINING.

 

STAND UP YOU CFI'S.... WE WOULD LOVE TO HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT YOUR COMPANY

 

There are 2 or 3 SSH CFI's that visit and post here occasionally. I think lately they have either been overwhelmed at what is really just now getting out to the public by their students or they have been hush-hushed by their managers (which does happen at a majority if not all SSH locations, proven by fact). They might also come on here saying us complaintants are just a bunch of "cant-hack-its". I know thats note the case with me and several others I have talked to who are continuing their training elsewhere with happiness.

It has been noted that Jerry typically makes an appearance during the first couple weeks at all of the new ground school classes and gives a little speach on how he doesnt want any students (and employees) submitting to the discontent "parking lot" and "internet forum" group meetings that typically offer the freedom to compain without suffering retribution from SSH. In the next breath, he also mentions the bit about "this training time is your job interview, and from the intensive research and investigation our HR department has done in selecting you guys, I trust that we have a group of students will help out around the facilities and not succumb to the dirty deeds that destroy a company such as the slanderous forums and parking-lot gatherings".

 

I honestly believe that I and the others here have been truely representing how the unspoken majority of savy students feel towards SSH. Again, they wont speak up because of fear. Fear that they might be found out OR/AND fear of facing the reality that they may have made a bad decision and have wasted a LOT of time and money.

 

As for the instructors, I feel most of them have no genuine long-term interest in SSH as most of the ones I have flown with have occassionally talked about finding another job because they didnt like the way SSH treated the students in general (3 of which have moved on to different companies). I observed that some CFI's discourage students from complaining too much about certain things, again bringing up the fact that they are in a job interview. It seems like SSH management imposes an implicit obligation on the instructors to "control" the students right to inquire about certain issues, and I think the managers do this through suttle reprimandations of the CFI's.

 

Hence, you will not find many (if any in the future) loyal SSH CFI's posting here or anywhere for that matter, in support of SSH's ongoing scheme of operations.

[flying high]

Frmerstdt couldn't be more right .Ive also know a few cfii that left cause they felt the pain of all the students I've known some to leave even for less pay sounds crazy but true.The school just tends to have that effect on some, others I guess are just biting their tounge and staying through their 1000hrs

[alasvegascfi]

They could ALWAYS post, without giving their name....

 

NO ONE, would even know what location they are from...

 

So with that said, there can be no issues, with them posting here.

 

It's completely annoumous.

 

 

I am suprised to see that the GOOD SSH CFI's, if there are any, or should I say the "professional" ones that know what they are doing to the students is wrong, should come on here and post what "the word is" around the office cooler....

 

The inside-scoop if you will.....

 

I have recently heard that students are being forced to fly less, cause of lack of SSH funds.

 

One SSH CFI told me that they were just recently told to fly students ONCE A WEEK.

[RotorWeed]

$70K for flight training and you only get to fly once a week? What is the appeal to this program?

 

Rotor

[frmersshstdnt]

They could ALWAYS post, without giving their name....

 

NO ONE, would even know what location they are from...

 

So with that said, there can be no issues, with them posting here.

 

It's completely annoumous.

I am suprised to see that the GOOD SSH CFI's, if there are any, or should I say the "professional" ones that know what they are doing to the students is wrong, should come on here and post what "the word is" around the office cooler....

 

The inside-scoop if you will.....

 

I have recently heard that students are being forced to fly less, cause of lack of SSH funds.

 

One SSH CFI told me that they were just recently told to fly students ONCE A WEEK.

It is not completely true that it is annonymous. If they give satisfying information about the facts happening at their location it would not be extremely difficult for a general manager to pinpoint the perpetrator (and I will guarantee almost all SSH general managers look at this forum on a regular basis).

You are probably right about flight time, some over-booked locations (which seem to be most in case of SSH) do only allow once a week scheduling. More realistically a large percentage will be cancelled due to various circumstances. With 50 students and 3 helis I was consistently getting scheduled twice a week, but half of that was cancelled by the school. Now there are upwards of 80 students there and 4 helis (maybe 5 now).

 

i stand corrected....almost 100 students and 4 R-22's and 1 R-44.

[jtravis1]

I might get flamed for this but here goes....

 

I am not affiliated in any way with SSH. I did purchase a R22 from them. I flew out to the Vegas location. I spent a few days there doing my SFAR transition. ( I had all my time in 44's and no R22 time). I spent two days flying off my 10 hours and flew with several instructors.

 

During the two trips out there I must say I saw things quite a bit different. I spoke with about 6 or 7 different instructors. All of them were VERY happy. I met many students who all seemed happy. The maintenance staff all seemed to love their jobs and were very enthusiastic about their jobs.

 

While I was down at the flight school, I examined the student progress boards on the wall. Almost all of the students were finishing their private right after the 40 hr mark. I think that is pretty amazing as well.

 

I am only one set of eyes and granted I was not a student but I must say I walked away with a great impression of the whole operation. The office staff was super helpful.

 

I thumbed through the syllabus while sitting down at the flight school and I was impressed with how laid out everything was.

 

I have heard that some complain about the quality of the CFI's at SSH. When I was down there I was asking them if they had a DPE on staff. They said that they could not check out their CFI's so all of the checkrides for the CFI were done by Tim Tucker.

 

If this is the case.....I hardly doubt that any CFI's are getting through if they are not up to par.

 

The money thing is a whole separate issue and I cannot comment on that.....But people seem to be taking this entire thing too far by saying that EVERYTHING Silver State does is sub-par.

 

I think in any organization that large you are bound to have unhappy people. I think SSH flew something like 115,000 flight hours last year. If you look up the in the FAA registry, they own almost 10% of the fleet of US registered R22's.

 

All I can say is my experience with the people there and my impressions of the school were quite different then what is being posted here.

 

Just another opinion.....

[flying high]

Training being sub-par? Well for me this was never a concern .I don't think people are questioning the their training ,or lack of proper training.The concern for me has always been the way they mislead or falsly advertise, which they do with no regret by getting the students committed financially then having them find out they have been totally mislead . I know If I or any deticated flying enthusiast were to complete their course their skills and knowledge would not be a question,since all pilots are held to the same level of standards by the FAA.SSH also holds their bar pretty high when it comes to written exams 90% or higher,but this is to weed out any student that does not reach their level of standards.Which in the end means less students to train, and more cash for their pockets.Don't get me wrong everyone should have high personal standards but the reality of it is there are many great ,safe pilots out there I'm sure probably did not score 90% or higher on all their writtens.

 

 

 

Flying high does NOT!!! support SSH in any way or form,All coments stated are purely flying highs opinion or facts obtained from personal experience other individuals experiences opinions may vary.

[frmersshstdnt]

yeah, I think flyin high's statements are accurate. The quality of training is generally nothing to fret about. However, I would like to point out that having instructors switched on a student often (which happens at SSH) can not be a good thing....being able to fly every one or two weeks can not be a good thing, as we all know flying skills need to be honed with minimal time interuption, especially during the private rating stage.

 

By the way, I like your disclaimer at the bottom!

[joker]

Good grief people!

 

Why the hell should a SSH CFI come on this board and have to 'defend' himself?

 

Aside from being a) unproffessional to get into an online scrap, and b ) not necessary as the argument doesn't appear to be between CFIs and clients (its between management and clients), I wouldn't expect any CFI to come in here. Come on, you haven't exactly been welcoming to them...what sort of reception would they get? That goes for students as well. A big hand to jtravis1.

 

I have absolutely no connection with SSH, couldn't really care less what happens, so my views are only from an outsider.

 

In short, I think this 'witch-hunt' has reached its peak...I don't think the continual dessimation of the company is doing any further good, and is certainly not swaying my opinion of the company. In fact, the opposite. My sympathy for the 'thousands' of students is waning with each post. Quite frankly, the posts are getting boring and predictable. i.e. someone mentions something about the company, another jumps in and says how terribly bad it actually is (way worse than we could imagine), and how Jerry should be shot.

 

Here's one for you to jump on. What kind of ceramic are the toilets made of at SSH? Let me guess, inferior stuff which doesn't allow a good session for the student!

 

As for whether you all have been exploited and un-fairly treated, the courts will decide. However, from what I am reading it seems to me that the only thing this guy Jerry is exploiting is the fact that people seem to think they can simply jump into a helicopter career without a) being fully committed, b ) doing proper research, and c) being financially ready.

 

It's sad that the in today's world the concept of 'as quick as possible, as cheep as possible, as much as possible' are what motivate people to move.

 

I really hope that justice is done either way. I don't know enough about the details of each situation. If the company has breached the terms of the contract you signed, then yes, the refund should be paid. On the other hand, if there is no breach of contract, then unfortunatley, I have little sympathy.

 

I am not aiming to belittle or patronise anyone here. I'm feel for you all. All I'm saying is that there is a way to rasie a complaint and that in fact it is becoming damaging to your own campaign. You have said most everything already...don't keep harping on and on about it. Get your court case through, win your money back and move on.

 

My main complaint though is how a benign thread can turn so easily into a SSH slating thread just by the comments of a couple. Surely there is enough already on this forum about this company. If you all are so confident that wrongs have been done and that your court case will show the company to be fraudulent then why try so hard to damn the company here. Surely, the courts will rule and the company will go out of business?

 

I'm starting to wonder whether your efforts to 'publicly' discredit this company are a semi-admission that actually the paperwork was not as crooked as you try to make out and that you are not confident about your law suit, so you are finding the only other way to seek your rewengee (revenge).

 

Well, once again I have put my b***s on the line here. It may sound argumentative of me, but in fact, I am trying to help. As I said, move on before you drive others like me to actually to lose sympathy for your cause!

 

Most of all though, it is a bloody shame for this board that SSH seems to have taken over. In that matter, you have succeeded. (Have you ever stopped to think that this is free advertising for them?)

 

I would like to see this board turn more 'positive' once again, where people help each other, where the good in the world is celebrated and where everyone gets along as friends in peace and harmony joined by our communal love for the skies!!

 

Joker

[alasvegascfi]

I hear what your saying...

 

But lets use some common sense here.

 

You have MULTIPLE POSTS on SEVERAL HELICOPTER SITES... that 99% have neg statements about SSH.

 

Where are all the people who love SSH?

 

If I liked SSH, as a student or CFI, I would be the first one there posting the positives and not just sitting back to read the negatives...

 

I have ALL seen and read hundreds, if not thousands of SSH posts.... I have seen maybe TWO positive ones.

 

 

I wonder why that is? I would think their CFI and students would stand up for their school / company, but I have yet to see any doing it.

 

I just find that odd... So I did what a lot of people are doing, find another shool.

[joker]

Ok, on the 'where are the CFIs issue', lets use more common sense.

 

Just assume that a SSH CFI does agree that his employer is crap and corrupt. Do you really think that he's going to come on to this board, and admit that he is working for a crappy and corrupt employer. He's just another CFI just like you and me, trying to make the most out of his situation. The last thing he's going to do is openly give people more reason NOT to employ him in the future when he moves on. Same goes for students. So no surprise that he doesn't appear on this forum.

 

The other situation is that the CFI actually is happy enough with his situation. You'd think that he would come on here singing and raving about his employer. But that won't happen, because he's read posts from people so set on damning his employer and persecuting everyone connected with him, that he just doesn't want to stick his neck out, take the flames and risk being identitifed by friends and boss.

 

Its a bit like Anne Frank's family in Poland in the war. Did they (and many other Jews) stand up and say, "Here I am. Open to persecution, because I know I'm right"...No! what do they do, lie low, keep a low profile to avoid further persecution. But that doesn't mean that they weren't true to what they believed.

 

So no surprise that he doesn't appear on this forum!

 

So yes, common sense must prevail. The absence of 'loving' posts does not necessarily mean anything in an anoymous forum.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I think that everything is rosy, and can quite understand someone choosing another school based on what he sees here. Hell, even I would. Just when all sides of the coin are considered, its not that surprising or significant that negative posts outwiegh the positive posts. It is always easier to complain than to compliment.

 

Joker

[frmersshstdnt]

when someone asks about or mentions SSH as a prospective student, I will comment. I do not care if everything has been posted in the past. That person may not be forum savy enough to find some of the older threads and read them all before asking a question. I think that is perfectly fine on their part. I mean dont get me wrong, I would rather just type out my whole situation and let everyone read it, but unfortunately thats not how it works. Like Ive said before....If you are getting sick of the SSH threads, then dont click on them. But as long as this company continues to rip people off, this site will contain redundant threads/posts, so get over it. It provides a continuum of information, updates, and verification for a very important cause.

 

P.S. I personally think you do have ties with SSH or you wouldnt be here wasting your breath over something you care so little about.

 

So either quit, or tell us your success story youve had with SSH.

[flying high]

Joker, no offense fellow pilot but for someone who wants to see this fire burn out you sure know how to keep it going.

[PhilJ]

P.S. I personally think you do have ties with SSH or you wouldnt be here wasting your breath over something you care so little about.

 

.

 

Perhaps it's the quality of the forum Joker cares about. I too am sick of seeing SSH threads, surely the "forum savvy" could just post a link to the main grievance forum rather than keep repeating themselves?

[frmersshstdnt]

Perhaps it's the quality of the forum Joker cares about. I too am sick of seeing SSH threads, surely the "forum savvy" could just post a link to the main grievance forum rather than keep repeating themselves?

Ok...I agree that we should combine all the SSH threads into one, but the threads simply existing does not bring the quality of this forum down. Go take a look at justhelicopters.com. You surely cant compare this to that.

[joker]

P.S. I personally think you do have ties with SSH or you wouldnt be here wasting your breath over something you care so little about.

 

You couldn't be further from the truth here. Another example how you can't just go by what you think! Be careful doing that...it could get you into trouble one day.

 

Nope, I just think there is a difference in being everybody's 'knight in shining armour', and simply seeking revenge and retribution.

 

And as has been said, I just think that it is unnecessarily taking over the forum...a forum I enjoy because it is for the most part a place to discuss aviation, help others and bounce ideas of each other.

 

Give people advice by all means, that's what this forum is for. What about PMing people instead? What about referring people to the previous posts? Is it really necessary to continually go over the same old ground?

 

Like I said, until the court case is settled (how's that going BTW), its not for me to agree or disagree whether anyone has been ripped off.

 

That's all.

 

Joker

 

P.S. Flying High, yes, I guess I am fanning the fire!!!! Just one of those moods...if you can't beat them, join them sort of thing! If people aren't going to talk shop, then next best is to create a hearty discussion!

[frmersshstdnt]

Give people advice by all means, that's what this forum is for. What about PMing people instead? What about referring people to the previous posts? Is it really necessary to continually go over the same old ground?

 

Then Private Message me.

[flying high]

Joker I can understand your point . I told myself no more ,but can't seem to help myself .I'm about all vented out now on the topic myself. I think most of us here are more less using the forum to let out a little steam, free therapy, if you catch my drift.

[jtravis1]

I am not a professional pilot. I just fly for fun.

 

In business I am in that pays for my expensive hobby, I have heard more then one person complain badly about a company my business does work for all the time.

 

I have done work for this company for the past 6 years. They have never bounced a check, never been late on a payment and in general have been great to do work for....Yet I hear these other people still complain. I began to wonder why they have some much trouble out of them and I don't. Upon talking to them further, I realize that they are not very good businessmen.

 

The company has strict rules on payment application, insurance requirements, dates for turning in applications and so on. Their office runs a tight ship and if you don't have every "t" crossed and "i" dotted...you probably aren't getting paid or at least on time...

 

The reason I bring this up is it just shows two sides of the coin. On one hand, you would hear from me that the company is great,...on the other hand, some would say they are crooks and they don't pay their bills. Sounds like two totally different companies doesn't it? But it is not...

 

My view is that they operate a business. A very well organized one that has a large system with staff with specific jobs. If you are not holding up your end of the bargain....you may not work well within this system.

 

I draw analogies between this company and SSH. Everything I saw of them had a feel of a well oiled machine. From the office staff, to the pilots, all the way down to the embossed toilet paper in the bathrooms. (That was a joke about the TP).

 

In any business there are certain costs. If you are thinking about signing a contract, you should do your due diligence prior to signing it. After you sign it....In my opinion....you are not entitled to a full refund....Even if you haven't set foot in a helo yet. There are still costs that SSH has had to put in to get to this point.

 

Well from an outsiders point of view that is how I see it.

 

It is very easy to see how some may not fit in. And they usually turn out to be the ones with the biggest mouths. Another reason why you hear so many complaints.

[fry]

The money thing is a whole separate issue and I cannot comment on that.....But people seem to be taking this entire thing too far by saying that EVERYTHING Silver State does is sub-par.

 

But the "money thing" is the issue.

 

-SSH's program costs $20k more than their competitors' comparable programs (i.e., for 200 flight hours). Why have they just recently raised their price so significantly. Their training may not be any worse than the competitions' but it certainly is not that much better. And that additional $20k is going to cost those students more than twice that over the life of their loan.

 

-SSH gets payment of the students' loan money long before the student has received the training services. In effect the students have made an unsecured loan to SSH. If SSH were to fold the students will have to go through a long, expensive and uncertain process to get any of their money back. There are plenty of precedents for this having happened at other flight schools.

 

-SSH charges high hourly rates for ground, sim and flight instruction as well as thousands of dollars in fees if a student withdraws.

 

-SSH implies that its graduates will have jobs when they get their CFI...and beyond. In reality SSH's non-training operations are minor. It's fleet consists almost entirely of training R-22s (and I believe it has even one less R-44 as of recently) and it has no commercial operations of any significance in which it could use any of its graduates.

 

Yep, the "money thing" is no small thing.

[joker]

SSH's program costs $20k more than their competitors' comparable programs (i.e., for 200 flight hours).

 

Surely this is a supply vs demand thing? I can go to the local market and get a nice red juicy apple apple for $0.5 Around the corner at a 'Gourmet' food shop is another apple, just as red and juicy for $1.0 Does this mean that the gourmet food shop is malicious in its ethics?

 

SSH gets payment of the students' loan money long before the student has received the training services. In effect the students have made an unsecured loan to SSH. If SSH were to fold the students will have to go through a long, expensive and uncertain process to get any of their money back.

 

Go to any bank, and ask for the same loan and they'd tell you to 'go away'. When a loan company gives a loan, they protect themselves. They also take payment for taking the risk in you. Its that old adage, don't borrow more than you can afford to repay...and don't borrow more than you can afford to lose.

 

-SSH charges high hourly rates for ground, sim and flight instruction as well as thousands of dollars in fees if a student withdraws.

 

Again, their protection for taking a risk in backing your loan.

 

SSH implies that its graduates will have jobs when they get their CFI...and beyond.

 

Every flight school in the country is talking of a 'huge pilot shortage' and how the industry has never been so good! Flightschools love the chance to crowbar any link they have with the industry beyond flight training. It gets students doesn't it? Hell, HAI in Florida slaps a picture of a sherrifs helicopter on its web page. What makes SSH so different? A job must be earned, it is not a right gained simply by paying money.

 

Joker

[fry]

Surely this is a supply vs demand thing? I can go to the local market and get a nice red juicy apple apple for $0.5 Around the corner at a 'Gourmet' food shop is another apple, just as red and juicy for $1.0 Does this mean that the gourmet food shop is malicious in its ethics?

 

I'm afraid your comments indicate that you would make a prime SSH candidate. Talk to someone before you sign on the dotted line. "Supply vs demand thing"...."apples"?? SSH charges $20k more than its competitors in the same local market. It really is as simple as that. The competitors are offering the same 200 flight hours for $50k that SSH is offering for $70k. It really is very easy to confirm that. The competitions' quality of instruction might even be better because the student is likely to stay with the same instructor rather than getting shuffled around among many.

 

Go to any bank, and ask for the same loan and they'd tell you to 'go away'. When a loan company gives a loan, they protect themselves. They also take payment for taking the risk in you. Its that old adage, don't borrow more than you can afford to repay...and don't borrow more than you can afford to lose.

 

I'm not sure what your point is here. SSH's lender "protects themselves" by only lending to borrowers with adequate ability to pay...i.e., a job...or to those with a co-signor...who has a job. The student loan is between the lender and the student...SSH does not guarantee anything to the student nor are they liable to the lender in anyway. If SSH goes belly-up the student is still responsible for what loan proceeds were disbursed to SSH. That's a fact...read the loan agreement.

 

 

Again, their protection for taking a risk in backing your loan.

 

Nonsense. The high hourly rates and withdraw fees that SSH charges have nothing to do with the loan. They are so SSH can make money even if the student withdraws and requests a refund.

 

Every flight school in the country is talking of a 'huge pilot shortage' and how the industry has never been so good! Flightschools love the chance to crowbar any link they have with the industry beyond flight training. It gets students doesn't it? Hell, HAI in Florida slaps a picture of a sherrifs helicopter on its web page. What makes SSH so different? A job must be earned, it is not a right gained simply by paying money.

 

Here you are correct, every flight school is marketing the same "pilot shortage" to entice customers. The difference with SSH is that they charge a premium ($20K) and the student is no more likely to get a job a SSH than they are at any other flight school.

 

I wish you luck if you are in a CFI program but, do yourself a favor, get outside advice when making financial commitments because you are a salesman's wet dream.

[frmersshstdnt]

I wouldnt have a problem with this "joker" character posting here if he had something to legitimately discuss or provide arguement over. I wish you (joker) would stop trying to justify the fraudulent actions of SSH or any other comapny that is commiting fraud for that matter. This is not a "lets all just get along and take what we've been dealt" situation. So Joker, please either contradict our telling inquisitive prospective students that SSH is not a good school (in general), or provide everyone with your SSH success story. Otherwise, you are just adding to the jumble (that you hate so much) to the SSH threads.

[fry]

I wish you (joker) would stop trying to justify the fraudulent actions of SSH or any other comapny that is commiting fraud for that matter.

 

I suggest you lighten up on the "fraud" talk. Silver State is not doing anything that has been determined to be illegal. Even having disputes with customers is not all that unusal for a company. Although, SSH does appear to have more than just a few very committed critics which should say something to prospective customers.

 

SSH engages in aggressive marketing and sales tactics and it targets a certain kind of customer with its "live your dream" message and easy money financing. That's not illegal; telemarketers, used car salesmen and investment & insurance brokers use the same methods. Some of SSH's business practices are questionable from the standpoint of treating the customer fairly (e.g., high withdrawal fees) but as far as I know none have been determined by a court to be fraud.

 

If you fell for the sales pitch and lost a significant amount of money then by all means pursue a legal remedy to the extent that you are able (although it probably will be fruitless). Otherwise, just chalk it up to experience and be more careful next time.