College or SSH

[fry]

From a recent WSJ article:

 

"According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the average [annual] cost of tuition, room and board at a [public university is] $10,660. Harvard costs...$38,000."

 

"The rush to college is surely related to the astonishing returns our society puts on higher education." College graduates have average annual earnings that are 83% higher than high school only grads.

 

So...why would someone pay nearly the equivalent of two years at Harvard and 60% more than four years at a public university to attend SSH? To "live your dream"? That's marketing hogwash.

[PhotoFlyer]

What is the point? There are existing SSH topics where this has been discussed.

 

Edited March 26, 2006 by PhotoFlyer

[fry]

Trade School Scams: Is the Dream Education Too Good to Be True?

Commentary, Angel Luna,

DeBug, Nov 18, 2005

 

SAN JOSE -- You know those TV commercials about how to easily get the security of a diploma at a trade school? They really do work -- the commercials at least.

 

When I kept seeing them, I was really interested in the advertised school. Not because I thought it was cool, but based on how quickly you could finish and get a job in that field. Like many of my friends, instead of going to a community college I chose to go to one of these vocational schools after high school.

 

I didn't do it because I thought I wasn't smart enough to go to a regular college. At the time that I enrolled, I saw trade school as the quickest and most efficient way for me to start my career in graphic design. Many people my age were enrolling in community college just to front that they were not some mediocre guy or girl with no dreams and a shady job. But after going to vocational school I still feel like that mediocre guy, except I also threw away $10,000 in doing so.

 

After I quit my job at a shoe store, I was thinking about going to Evergreen Community College. I was excited about all the changes in my life, from being just one more average Joe to becoming a college student. But then one day my cousin came by and told me about how he was going to Silicon Valley College. He explained the Silicon Valley College plan. It sounded like it was going to be fun, plus it was like a short cut in my educational career. The schools offered classes in graphic design, with no English, science or math requirements. Man, it was going to be only classes that I wanted!

 

The first thing I said to my cousin after he explained everything was, “Where do I sign?” The next day I made an appointment to see a Silicon Valley College counselor.

 

The representative or “counselor” that I met with told me wonderful stuff about the school. It was like she was describing Disneyland. The process was very easy and I was surprised that I got accepted according to their academic standards. My future looked bright according to them. I was a star in the making, soon to be on the wall of fame of Silicon Valley College.

 

Admission was a done deal already, so the next step was to get my financial aid. The financial aid lady was very nice, and while she stared at my paper work, she kept telling me how wonderful it is to get an education.

 

She said that I should get my mom as a co-signer for my federal loan. I took the bus home with my application in my hand, thinking of the many possibilities in becoming a professional in a field that involves technology. But my mom could not co-sign because of her legal status, and I also couldn't apply on my own, because I was not old enough. I was broken-hearted, but I was still trying to fight to get my education.

 

According to the school, there was a grant from the school for “special emergencies,” and my emergency fit the requirements. I got the private grants, and in my eyes I was happy that there were still people out there trying to help a young man get his education.

 

The first day came around. The class was “Photoshop 7” for beginners, and I was very confident because I had already worked with the program. The teacher seemed like a good dude. His name was Mr. Randall, but he told us to call him “Randall” or “Rando.” He was very smart and relaxed. For the first time, I felt like a teacher cared. Plus, this guy was a pro in the industry -- he actually made video games, something I always dreamed of. I really felt like I was in a good position to reach my goal of becoming a graphic designer.

 

Months went by, and I was there everyday, on time and ready to do what I was told. It was great. The last day of Photoshop came and to my surprise all we had to do was hand in easy assignments. So the class just played a Street Fighter II tournament the rest of the day.

 

But after that first class, all the others had the same vibe: the students weren't being taught, and we were just having a good time. All the teachers were taking the same approach, just kicking back and trying to pass the time. Only we were being charged $1,000 per class.

 

I had to take time off for a short while to take care of some family issues and when I got back, all the school personnel had changed. They weren't sure what to do with me, so I kept getting switched around the graphic department like a top. Finally, I got some attention from the department because they thought that I had been there too long. I thought so too. The program was supposed to be over after your Portfolio class, and I had already taken three Portfolio classes.

 

I finally left the school this past summer. They told me I was allowed to go through with the graduation, I didn’t see the point since they said I could not get a diploma. Even while I was still taking classes there, I received calls and letters about paying back my loans to the school. Ultimately, that's all they really wanted from me anyway -- my dollar bills. The only thing that I always received on time at that school was the reminder to pay my bills for the private loan, and let me tell you, those fools from Sally Mae are not that polite.

 

The thing that broke my heart is that the school didn’t care about the students.

I experienced it. I would come late and no one would say anything, and I’d turn stuff in after deadlines and then they would give me an A or a B.

 

Because my loans are so big, I’m now working at UPS, and I have two other jobs. I’ve enrolled at DeAnza College. I didn’t get the classes I wanted, but it’s good to get used to the feeling of being in school again. After everything I went through, I’m not really stressing about getting into graphic design. I’m more concerned with getting a real education, and I would like to get into a four-year university.

 

21-year-old Luna is a contributor to Silicon Valley Debug, a project of Pacific News Service, and a guest contributor for “It’s My Turn," a youth column on education issues.

[fry]

This piece pretty much sums up the present situation. Whether it's positive or negative for prospective students depends on how ya read it. Although, the comparison between the depiction of Vortex and SSH is striking. Vortex: $40-$50k, "one-year course", partnering with Air Log. SSH: $69.9k, 18 to 24 month program, no commerical connections.

 

http://www.theadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll...=73241139920788

 

"Air Logistics, which had taken a number of pilots from the school beforehand, has partnered with Vortex. Graduates are eligible for an Air Logistics internship, and the promise of a job has lured many students into the program.

 

The problem, however, is that when students finish the one-year course, which usually costs between $40,000 and $50,000, they still are around 800 hours short of being employable at Air Logistics, according to Suldo".

[rotorwish]

who are you and why do you persist in maintaining a SSH bash thread?

[fry]

who are you and why do you persist in maintaining a SSH bash thread?

 

Since you asked...the thread is not really about bashing SSH it's about college as an alternative to helo training. This whole "live your dream, join the exciting world of the professional helicopter pilot" stuff is being way over-marketed. As are most trade school programs...truck driving, "draw me", micro-computers, law enforcement, yada, yada, yada. Many of the helo schools are starting to jump on the marketing bandwagon, SSH just happens to be a good extreme example.

 

The problem with all of these trade schools us that most...that is, a high percentage...of individuals entering do not go on to actually earn a living in that field (an exception is when the training program has a link to a company in the industry). This is especially true of flight training due to the long apprenticeship after training...i.e., 800 hours as a CFI.

 

The difference between flight training and all those other "trade schools" is that it is very expensive. And if the "students do not go on after training to jobs that actually generate a liveable paycheck (being a CFI does not but then it is not supposed to...it's an apprenticeship), then they have spent a heckovalotta money (usually borrowed at high interest rates) for a private pilot's license. This high cost training is only good for one thing...making a living by flying...and most of those starting these programs will never get to that point.

 

But anyone who can go through flight training from zero to CFI can certainly get through college. And the college alternative results in a much more flexible result...especially in the longterm...and it is generally cheaper. It just takes longer.

 

Does that answer your question?

[rotorwish]

thank you for a thoughtful explanation of your purpose. Often these forums become a bash and trash without knowledge or sincerity.

 

Would I be considered an exception as a zero to GOM in two years? This was after going to college and getting a degree because 'that's what you're supposed to do to be succesful'.

 

That degree will never hurt me, however I wish I would have gotten an earlier start in the industry. I think that trade schools can be an excellent opton to get right to a desired career path.

[fry]

Would I be considered an exception as a zero to GOM in two years? This was after going to college and getting a degree because 'that's what you're supposed to do to be succesful'.

 

That degree will never hurt me, however I wish I would have gotten an earlier start in the industry. I think that trade schools can be an excellent opton to get right to a desired career path.

 

I believe that going from zero to a regular paycheck in the helo industry in just two years would be the exception. I would also submit that your college experience contributed to your being able to do that...i.e., the study discipline and focus that you acquired during your college experience transferred over to your aviation training.

 

You could be right about trade schools in general and maybe I took too hard a line about them. But not as regards to flight training (not just helo, but more so for helo because of the higher operating costs). On a cost-benefit basis I still think college is the better alternative. The failure rate and cost for those entering flight school are both just too high ("failure" being defined as those who do not achieve a regular paycheck beyond that of a CFI).

 

And that goes doubly for any school that penalizes students with high withdrawal costs. That kind of behavior is just plain "gouging".

[rotorwish]

I must commend you on the first productive converstation I've had here or JH in two years.

 

Are you in the Helicopter industry?

[ascott20]

If you don't mind, let me weigh in on this whole post-secondary education issue...

 

A lot of people have argued this very topic on this very site many times now, and it always goes both ways. Let me answer it this way:

 

How often does a 22-year old college graduate land that 80,000 dollar/year job with the company car? About 1 in a million.

 

How often does that brand new commercial instrument helo driver land that 7-on 7-off GOM job? About 1 in a million.

 

You ask how?

 

Because they're willing to work for it and do not expect hand outs from anyone. A lot of people have this horrible notion that just because they pay a lot of money to something that they're entitled to instant gratification. That is definitely not the case in the helo industry nor is it in the academic forum. Both colleges and flight schools preach obtaining your dream through their programs and claim that "they'll get you there." Of course they will! They are businesses for all intents and purposes. And also, they do give you the basic credentials to get you there. What you lack is experience and maturity. Both of which come with time, practice, and training. So whether you're that legal research assistant straight out of Harvard or that novice CFI from Podunk flight school, you're building your bridge to your goal. I have friends who flourished and flunked with the same education I had in both college and helos, and it was all about their work ethic. For me, I did the college thing and the helo thing. How many job offers did I get off that? None. But, when I went out BEFORE graduation and pursued employers on both sides, the entry-level offers did come. Ironically, I chose the Army as my post-educational job. Here I can build on my professional administrative experience and also continue to fly (in obviously much more sophisticated aircraft) so I've kind of reached a happy medium. I may still not have that 80,000 dollar/year job, but I'm stable and growing everyday.

 

My advice to anyone is to get that college education. Life tends to blindside us at inconvenient times and having a degree always there is invaluable. The helo training will come if you want it. Don't be a sucker for fool programs and don't be afraid to ask the hard questions. The good schools on both sides will answer them without hesitation.

 

That's my spin.... ENJOY!

[fry]

How often does a 22-year old college graduate land that 80,000 dollar/year job with the company car? About 1 in a million.

 

How often does that brand new commercial instrument helo driver land that 7-on 7-off GOM job? About 1 in a million.

 

You ask how? Because they're willing to work for it and do not expect hand outs from anyone.

 

 

You're comparing apples and oranges. While it is true that a recent college grad will probably not land an $80k job straight out of school, that level of salary is a distinct possibily after just a few years in the workplace for the average college grad. According the the R&W 2005 salary survey, the compensation for the average pilot with a comparable amount of time in the workplace will be in the high 50s-low 60s. In addition, the lifetime earnings for a college grad vs a non-grad are likely to be higher because the helo driver's compensation will top out...as will any technical occupation...unless he can add additional value, e.g., move into management.

 

The simple fact is, there are more opportunities available for a college grad...in most any field...than there are for a CFI because the college diploma will open doors in a greater variety of career fields than will the pilot's license. Basically, as I've said before, the pilot's license is only good for one thing.

 

And as far as cost-benefit goes, the college alternative wins hands down. An individual can go through four years at a public university...including room and board...for less than the cost of the CFI ticket (much less than the cost of SSH's program). And there is a greater variety of financial aid available including some that does not have to be repaid.

 

The choice is more than simply whether "they're willing to work for it and do not expect hand outs from anyone". That's a sales pitch, i.e., a "Be all you can be" kind of challenge that marketing throws at us to get our pride to overwhelm our better sense. It's not about personal character and stick-to-it-tiveness, it's about making a realistic career choice. Hell, I love to ski but it just doesn't make sense to try to make a living at it. I'll do what I do well for money and make as much as I can. Then I can afford to ski at some great locations.

[ascott20]

Well, I guess my question to you then is, what do you want in life? Of course a college grad will have more open doors than a helo pilot; that is obvious. A college degree is just a general piece of paper that gives you credentials to a higher level job market, whereas a helo ticket only gives employability in one occupation in one industry. If you want to make lots of money in life then yes, helo driving is probably not the place. But if you want to do something you love and make a modest income, then maybe it is your place. That's why we do it. I could make tons of money selling real estate or consulting, but I wouldn't be happy. This is why myself and probably every other pilot out there chose this profession. We don't want the typical crapshoot life. We want to wake up excited by our jobs; even we don't end up rich. If you're about the money and prestige, then maybe helo driving isn't for you.

 

Like I've said before, a degree is the best thing you can do for yourself. You may not always be able to fly, and having it on the back burner is invaluable. Just because you choose one path, doesn't mean you can't take the other as well. And as I've said before, it's how much and how far your willing to go. That's not a sales pitch, that's a fact of life... no matter what occupation your in.

 

So do you want to fly helos? Or are you just looking for a path to wealth... I guess I'm confused as to why you're posting on this website.

[fry]

This is why myself and probably every other pilot out there chose this profession. We don't want the typical crapshoot life. We want to wake up excited by our jobs; even we don't end up rich. If you're about the money and prestige, then maybe helo driving isn't for you.

 

That sentiment is expressed a lot in aviation...generally by people selling flight training ("live your dream")and by unattached twenty-somethings. It's a self-centered attitude that really does not survive as one ages except in some perpetual juveniles...you've seen 'em, thirty-five going on eighteen.

[ascott20]

I'll tell you what. I'm a commercial-instrument helo pilot who also holds a private-instrument fixed-wing certificate. I am not nor have I ever been a CFI, and I have been flying aircraft for 8 years now. I'm in the military, and the closest I ever got to working for a flight school was an internship that i did for a company that offered flight instruction as one of its products.

 

I don't know what happened to you in your flight training or attempt at training, but I apologize for whoever made you this disgruntled. But this is one of the few jobs out there in this world that you do because you enjoy it. Granted most people in life work only to make money and wealth; and that is okay. But for me personally, I've been there and I'd rather be happy and not as wealthy. Ironically, most of the older pilots I know that stuck with the profession ended up doing very well... much better than advertised. Plus, they were always able to come home with a smile on their face after work.

 

The culminating point for me, was when I used to come home from work and see my girlfriend. I didn't notice it, but whenever I came home from my "real job" I was always tired, frustrated, and unmotivated. Then when I started flying, she remarked one day how upbeat I was. Amazingly she was right; to the point that my blood pressure had actually gone down to normal levels (it used to be skyrocketed). Now I think 40 years of this everyday versus 40 years of "real jobs." I think I'll keep flying.

 

Now don't get me wrong. Aviation is not for everyone. I've also met a lot of people who could not handle the stress of flying and carrying passengers or the idea of a limited career field. And that too, is okay; this is not for everyone. Now, I can't speak for you or anyone else, but for me- I've found my niche.

[fry]

Now don't get me wrong. Aviation is not for everyone. I've also met a lot of people who could not handle the stress of flying and carrying passengers or the idea of a limited career field.

 

Actually...I agree with you. My beef is with certain flight schools that market this occupation as if it is "for everyone" and then stick them with a big bill and a huge loan.

[mechanic]

Hey Fry,

 

Dude, I feel you are coming across alittle bit strong towards Tara. Your posts seem to me to have the "Six Gun's a Blazin". I feel your pain about wanting a degree, though. I have 60 hrs of Voc College Credit and also a USAF Vet all from mechanical backgrounds. About degree's, you need to really do some sole searching and figure out what you really want to do in life. I looked at a lot of Career Titles on the U.S. Dept of Labor website to see just what other job titles took far as education vs. pay. I think if you spend some time there you would be suprised at how high of a level of education you must have to get into 40-50 K range for some of these jobs. Most of those jobs I would hate and could not even think about trying to go through 8 years of college to just break into the industry. I have a few clips from the labor website.

 

 

 

The educational attainment of social scientists is among the highest of all occupations. The Ph.D. or an equivalent degree is a minimum requirement for most positions in colleges and universities and is important for advancement to many top-level nonacademic research and administrative posts. Graduates with master's degrees in applied specialties usually have better opportunities outside of colleges and universities, although the situation varies by field. Graduates with a master's degree in a social science may qualify for teaching positions in community colleges. Bachelor's degree holders have limited opportunities and, in most social science occupations, do not qualify for "professional" positions. The bachelor's degree does, however, provide a suitable background for many different kinds of entry-level jobs, such as research assistant, administrative aide, or management or sales trainee. With the addition of sufficient education courses, social science graduates also can qualify for teaching positions in secondary and elementary schools.

 

 

 

In May 2004, anthropologists and archaeologists had median annual earnings of $43,890; geographers, $58,970; historians, $44,490; political scientists, $86,750; and sociologists, $57,870.

 

In the Federal Government, social scientists with a bachelor's degree and no experience could start at a yearly salary of $24,677 or $30,567 in 2005, depending on their college records. Those with a master's degree could start at $37,390, and those with a Ph.D. degree could begin at $45,239, while some individuals with experience and an advanced degree could start at $54,221. Beginning salaries were slightly higher in selected areas of the country where the prevailing local pay level was higher.

 

 

 

Just a thought? Regards

[fry]

In May 2004, anthropologists and archaeologists had median annual earnings of $43,890; geographers, $58,970; historians, $44,490; political scientists, $86,750; and sociologists, $57,870.

 

Yes, I see the dilemma...hmmm, anthropologist, archaeologist or roughneck chauffer in the GOM. :-)

 

Actually, my point has been that, dollar for dollar, a college education provides more career flexibility than a CFI certification. Along that line, a degree focused on the job market would probably be in a less academic field than those you referenced (those you listed it would seem to have the same lack of flexibility as the CFI)...e.g., engineering, physical science, business.

[svtcobra66]

Just some observations... First, if money didn't matter, you would be homeless. Telling someone that it is more rewarding to get your flight training done than your college degree is ridiculous, if you want both do both, and figure out a way to pay for it. Flight training is something most people fresh out of high school can't handle without going into serious debt, unless they have someone else willing to pay for it (admittedly my situation). I soloed when I was 16, will be graduating in may, and let me tell you if i had to choose i would choose the college education hands down. We live in a society where money matters, and if you want to make 30k forever as a pilot (yes, I know this is an exaggeration), thats fine, but atleast do it with a college degree. Life can throw you some serious curveballs, and if you don't have something else going for you things may get hairy. I'm not going to be making tons of money right out of college, but i'm still going to be in the aviation market that I enjoy, and while I won't be flying every day, I'll make enough to fly a few times a month. I can just see how it would be easy for someone to get in debt big time while paying for flying, atleast if you pay for college you will have a lot more options in terms of what you do to pay off the debt. Its already been said in this thread, but the pilots license is only going to help you be a pilot. Why not let it wait until you can afford it?

[keepitntrim]

Fry, Fry, Fry...

 

I will echo ascot20's sentiments - I feel sorry for whatever must have happened to you in your dealings with SSH. Be that as it may, I take exception to your statement:

 

"That sentiment is expressed a lot in aviation...generally by people selling flight training ("live your dream")and by unattached twenty-somethings. It's a self-centered attitude that really does not survive as one ages except in some perpetual juveniles...you've seen 'em, thirty-five going on eighteen"

 

If that makes you feel better about your situation, then so be it. Let me assure you that MANY people in this field do it for the exact reasons ascott20 tried to convey to you. I know I do. If money were the driving force, I would be back in medicine, working less and making TONS more. Instead, I happen to be that 35 year old you so eloquently pegged as a "perpetual juvenile." Nice phrase... I happen to think I have a pretty solid grasp on what it is I do, and why I do it. It's called passion. I-love-what-I-do. I feel priviledged to wake up every day, strap in and see the world from places few can and will. Will I ever make the income I did previously - nope. Not even close. Did that cause a lifestyle change - you'd better believe it. Some things can never be measured in $ signs. I hope you realize that before it's too late.

 

Oh yea - the part about

"Be all you can be" kind of challenge that marketing throws at us to get our pride to overwhelm our better sense

kinda gets under my skin as well (now that I'm getting this off my chest). I was that young "be all you can be" for a few years, not because my pride overwhelmed my sense, but because I firmly believed (and believe) in serving my country. End of speech (applause).

 

Everyone fly safe and have a great weekend.

[fry]

I will echo ascot20's sentiments - I feel sorry for whatever must have happened to you in your dealings with SSH...I was that young "be all you can be" for a few years, not because my pride overwhelmed my sense, but because I firmly believed (and believe) in serving my country.

 

My point probably got lost in all our banter in this thread. SSH has done nothing to me, I've had no dealings with them at all. My comments are not personal...SSH just happens to be a really good bad example.

 

I'll try to state my point in initiating this thread as succinctly as I can.

 

Earning a living as a helicopter pilot is just not for everyone. The technical requirements; the time commitment and expense of the training; the long period of near-poverty apprenticeship; the lifestyle (i.e., the travel, time away and job locations); the relatively limited number of available positions and the competition for those positions all contribute to making this an occupation that is not suited to most people.

 

Nevertheless, SSH mass markets this to the average joe (who often has a family, a job and limited ability to squeeze-in adeguate training time) as his dream job. The fact is, most of those who enter SSH's training program will never reach the point of actually earning a living as a pilot beyond the CFI apprenticeship. They will have put themselves in debt for 20 years to go through an occupational training program for which they will never have an occupation.

 

PS: My "be all you can be" comment was referring to a marketing slogan and had nothing to do with military service. I was in the USMC including a tour in VN.

[Guest 13snoopy]

My point probably got lost in all our banter in this thread. SSH has done nothing to me, I've had no dealings with them at all. My comments are not personal...SSH just happens to be a really good bad example.

 

I'll try to state my point in initiating this thread as succinctly as I can.

 

Earning a living as a helicopter pilot is just not for everyone. The technical requirements; the time commitment and expense of the training; the long period of near-poverty apprenticeship; the lifestyle (i.e., the travel, time away and job locations); the relatively limited number of available positions and the competition for those positions all contribute to making this an occupation that is not suited to most people.

 

Nevertheless, SSH mass markets this to the average joe (who often has a family, a job and limited ability to squeeze-in adeguate training time) as his dream job. The fact is, most of those who enter SSH's training program will never reach the point of actually earning a living as a pilot beyond the CFI apprenticeship. They will have put themselves in debt for 20 years to go through an occupational training program for which they will never have an occupation.

 

PS: My "be all you can be" comment was referring to a marketing slogan and had nothing to do with military service. I was in the USMC including a tour in VN.

fry,

SSH is out to make money. I agree that some of their "promises" are only taken seriously by those folks who fall into the PT Barnum category, and there is no shortage of those people, sadly. However, this forum is about guys/gals who enjoy flying helicopters. It's not about making money. I believe if you do what you love you are probably as rich as anyone alive because you are truly doing what you love, not w-o-r-k-i-n-g. Your analysis is getting tiresome. Tell us something that isn't so obvious. WE UNDERSTAND. Please stop the community college econ summary. WE GET IT.

PS

I am in the real estate sales/investment field. I make more in a year than most of the professional pilots here do in ten or fifteen, but THEY are doing what they love and most wouldn't trade professions with me for any price. Money does not equal happiness. Doing what you love is happiness. That much I'm certain of.

[fry]

Your analysis is getting tiresome. Tell us something that isn't so obvious. WE UNDERSTAND. Please stop the community college econ summary. WE GET IT.

PS

I am in the real estate sales/investment field. I make more in a year than most of the professional pilots here do in ten or fifteen...

 

Here's a thought...the thread is obviously not intended for you. Equally obvious, the thread is clearly labeled as to its contents...so if you've got it, just don't read it.

 

PS: Real estate sales huh? So you are familiar with the kind of over-marketing I'm referring to. Why the need to tell us how much money you make? Because...it's a sales technique. It's intended to lend credability to your comments. SSH uses it in their seminars, as do all sales presentations. And it has been my experience that sales people who tell others how much money they have usually don't really have it.

[ascott20]

Fry,

 

Alright, now I see what you're getting at. At first glance, I thought you were trying slam down the whole concept of helo driving and that's why I was a little defensive. My apologies.

 

The owner of the flight school I attended (and my boss when I interned there) always asked every 20-something student we had if they had an education or where working on one prior to attending. If they did or were in the process, he left them alone. But if they didn't, he would constantly push them to look at some type of college. I don't know if he sees the professional helo industry going the way of the airlines or he was just being patronly, but he did get through to a lot of the students, and most of them have better jobs because of it; both in and out of aviation.

 

My only gripe with the current situation is I would like to see a diversity of degree programs that could include a helo discipline. For example ERAU in Prescott, AZ offers a helo minor that can be coupled with any of their degrees. A lot of schools only offer an aviation degree that includes helo training and my greatest fear for those students is that they will suffer from a lack of diversity education outside of helos. I have a degree in Aerospace Studies from ERAU Daytona (go figure) and I've decided to place my Master's in another discipline when it comes time for me to get it. There a lot of things that can pull a person from a cockpit. And if that ever happens to me, I'd like to know that I can get a job other than as a Flight Dispatcher.

 

And for the advertising, I do agree that some companies push the limit to borderline fraud. The ones that really anger me are the schools that promise "fast track" programs if you pay ahead or in block payments. Truth be known, this has been done on the fixed-wing side in the past and was usually a sign of a school on the verge of collapse. I'm not saying that this is true for the helo world, but history does have a way of repeating itself.

[sactown77]

college, handsdown, college

[Guest 13snoopy]

Here's a thought...the thread is obviously not intended for you. Equally obvious, the thread is clearly labeled as to its contents...so if you've got it, just don't read it.

 

PS: Real estate sales huh? So you are familiar with the kind of over-marketing I'm referring to. Why the need to tell us how much money you make? Because...it's a sales technique. It's intended to lend credability to your comments. SSH uses it in their seminars, as do all sales presentations. And it has been my experience that sales people who tell others how much money they have usually don't really have it.

I'm not trying to "sell" anything, you arrogant boob.

I mentioned incomes only to reinterate that money doesn't buy happiness. And I stand by the statement I made:

Most professional pilots here wouldn't trade what they do for my job for any amount of $$. It's not all about the money.

 

Your hatred towards salespeople baffles me, what happened, did some "sales person" steal your girlfriend?

 

 

Ahh, and as for the insinuation that I'm being dishonest:

My profession is one of the easiest to figure out income-wise.

I do about 30 million a year in real estate sales. Anywhere online will give you average real estate sales commission charges. I bet even you can do that math.