Working Pilots over age 40+

[Doug]

Hello everyone,

 

I'd like to hear some discussion from the "older" members of our community who are working in the helicopter aviation field. My reason: I've worked for American Airlines for 17 years and I'm planning on retiring in 3-8 years. I came to Tulsa in 1987 to be a pilot for the airlines but the jobs weren't there, so I opted to be a mechanic instead and vowed to one day finish my dream. I'm a fixed wing pilot since age 15. Helicopters has been my true dream, so I would like to hear from those of you who started training later in life and what lind of struggles you faced getting there. I'm 43 years old and I'm planning on starting my training within the next twelve months, instruct for 2-3 years to build my time, then retire from American Airlines and go fly helicopters. If anyone out there can comment, I would be most appreciative. I don't want to drop $45,000-$65,000 on training if the prospects of flying at an older age are not likely. Thanks for your time.

[FXBGHELOS]

Hi, I am 47 and seriously planning on taking helicopter lessons real soon. I have taken a few lessons and yes i am hooked to say the least. Sometimes i wonder if i'm too old to do it but seems as long as the health is good it will be fine. I am so hooked that it nearly consumes me 24/7. I would actually LOVE to finish the training and open a flight training school, as well as some other local contracts to keep me busy and keep the company in the green. i'm located out in Virginia - you interested in a relocation :-). Anyway, I would say GO FOR IT if you have the $$ to do so. If your married how does your spouse feel about that? Mine isn't too keen on the idea for the most part.

[Doug]

Hi, I am 47 and seriously planning on taking helicopter lessons real soon. I have taken a few lessons and yes i am hooked to say the least. Sometimes i wonder if i'm too old to do it but seems as long as the health is good it will be fine. I am so hooked that it nearly consumes me 24/7. I would actually LOVE to finish the training and open a flight training school, as well as some other local contracts to keep me busy and keep the company in the green. i'm located out in Virginia - you interested in a relocation :-). Anyway, I would say GO FOR IT if you have the $$ to do so. If your married how does your spouse feel about that? Mine isn't too keen on the idea for the most part.

My wife is completely for it. She knows that my dream to fly is what keeps me going. She wants to move out of Okla once the kids graduate and move to South Carolina or somewhere like it. I would like to fly in the gulf for a while, but I eventually want to fly EMS for an air ambulance service. I sometimes think the money is quite a bit to pay for the training, but then again, what price do you place on YOUR dreams. If you do what you love, then you don't work a day in your life because then it isn't work. Good luck with your future.

[fry]

I've worked for American Airlines for 17 years and I'm planning on retiring in 3-8 years. I'm 43 years old...

 

You must have a heck of a pension plan there at AA to be thinking of retiring at 51.

[Doug]

You must have a heck of a pension plan there at AA to be thinking of retiring at 51.

It's not bad and I make about $70,000 a year as an A & P, but money isn't everything. I know I'll be taking a serious cut in pay to fly helicopters, but money dosen't equal happiness ( at least not in my case) but being in the air flying, that is my true passion and where I find my joy. I guess once you've tasted the freedom of flight , being earth bound just won't do anymore.

[Superman]

I hope that there is life after 40! I have been working on the Helicopter raitings for a few years now. Have fixed wing commercial, multi, instrument and cfi, helicopter commercial and working on the cfi add-on. I work my real job thru the day, am lucky enough to get to fly regular,and I even get paid to do it! Have raised the family, paid the bills and done most of my flying without going into debt. My plan is to be "hirable" by 45 or so and finish out my working life doing something I like, rather than something I had to do. I see no reason that it can't be done, If it doesn't work out, you won't be alone

[Fire Dave]

I will be 46 next month, in 4 years I will have 30 years as a firfighter and will be 50. I am off to check out Canadian Helicopter in a few minutes. It is my dream also to start a second career doing something I have always wanted, not just bread on the table. My wife is behind me all the way. She only gets worried about me going off the road looking at old cars and helicopters.

One should do the things that one wants to later in life. We live most of our lives of others or just surviving.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

Dave

[FXBGHELOS]

I will be 46 next month, in 4 years I will have 30 years as a firfighter and will be 50. I am off to check out Canadian Helicopter in a few minutes. It is my dream also to start a second career doing something I have always wanted, not just bread on the table. My wife is behind me all the way. She only gets worried about me going off the road looking at old cars and helicopters.

One should do the things that one wants to later in life. We live most of our lives of others or just surviving.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

Dave

 

 

Congratulations on seeking your dream. It definately helps when your wife is all for your idea. Some people just don't understand the Nothing ventured, nothing gained saying. It is very true, and not just in the helicopter business but in life - if you don't walk out on the limb sometimes you will never get the opportunity that lay out there. Its great to see others around my age going for it. It gives me even that much more energy to push forward and pursue my dreams.

 

FXBGHELOS

[scottsl4]

I just talked to someone at my school and one of the students just got hired to fly the ditch. Cool thing was he is 69.

[fry]

Some people just don't understand the Nothing ventured, nothing gained saying. It is very true, and not just in the helicopter business but in life - if you don't walk out on the limb sometimes you will never get the opportunity that lay out there. Its great to see others around my age going for it. It gives me even that much more energy to push forward and pursue my dreams.

 

Multiple choice question:

 

Slogans like "live your dream", "money isn't everything" & "nothing ventured, nothing gained" are most often used by:

 

a) Those with sufficient retirement assets to allow them to take some risks.

40-somethings going through the mid-life transition who are just daydreaming.

c) 40-somethings going through the mid-life transition who are about to naively blow a chunk of their 401k.

d) Salesmen looking to sell flight training.

[Whirlwind]

Multiple choice question:

 

Slogans like "live your dream", "money isn't everything" & "nothing ventured, nothing gained" are most often used by:

 

a.) Those with sufficient retirement assets to allow them to take some risks.

b.) 40-somethings going through the mid-life transition who are just daydreaming.

c.) 40-somethings going through the mid-life transition who are about to naively blow a chunk of their 401k.

d.) Salesmen looking to sell flight training.

 

e.) Those who have discovered during their life that it is better to go after their dreams when they are able, rather than live a life of regretting things they "could have done".

 

A book that changed my outlook on life, and recommended reading for anyone who has had a passion for something, but has been reluctant to pursue it: "Callings : Finding and Following an Authentic Life" by Gregg Michael Levoy

 

I'll add my name to the list of dreamers. I'm 46 and am going to begin training for my second career as a helicopter pilot later this summer. I realize that the time will come when my health will prevent me from being a commercial pilot, so I am pursuing that dream while I still can. I can always go back to my first career as an engineer, if need be, when I can no longer fly.

 

Some people just need a new challenge and another opportunity to grow.

Not every 40-something person that is thinking of flight training is going through a mid-life crisis.

[Doug]

Multiple choice question:

 

Slogans like "live your dream", "money isn't everything" & "nothing ventured, nothing gained" are most often used by:

 

a) Those with sufficient retirement assets to allow them to take some risks.

40-somethings going through the mid-life transition who are just daydreaming.

c) 40-somethings going through the mid-life transition who are about to naively blow a chunk of their 401k.

d) Salesmen looking to sell flight training.

 

Fry,

 

You have a point there, and my question to you is. How old are you? Just curious. And do you fly for a living? I don't have "sufficient assets" or the 401k retirement that you might think I have, but wanting to work as a pilot has been a desire for me as long as I can remember. If you're doing what the rest of us would like to do, then you are indeed a fortunate one. It's not that we're daydreaming or going through mid life crisis, I've been married for 23 years and by the time I finish my flight training and build my hours, my two boys will be on careers of their own. My wife has always understood why I want to fly and stands behind my willingness to change careers. If you don't work in the airline industry, then you have no idea of the volitility of the business that the airlines are going through, or the uncertainity that we as airline employees face on a daily basis. We never know when or if the doors will be closed from one day to the next. I'm just looking into a section of the avaition community that has a severe shortage of pilots, and I'm willing to take the risk of starting over when it's MY decision to make, before someone else makes a decision about my career without me being a part of it. I'm going to be taking a hard look over the next 12 months before I invest that kind of money into a career change. I've been through the school of "hard knocks" so I'm not someone who doesn't understand the realities of life.

 

e.) Those who have discovered during their life that it is better to go after their dreams when they are able, rather than live a life of regretting things they "could have done".

 

A book that changed my outlook on life, and recommended reading for anyone who has had a passion for something, but has been reluctant to pursue it: "Callings : Finding and Following an Authentic Life" by Gregg Michael Levoy

 

I'll add my name to the list of dreamers. I'm 46 and am going to begin training for my second career as a helicopter pilot later this summer. I realize that the time will come when my health will prevent me from being a commercial pilot, so I am pursuing that dream while I still can. I can always go back to my first career as an engineer, if need be, when I can no longer fly.

 

Some people just need a new challenge and another opportunity to grow.

Not every 40-something person that is thinking of flight training is going through a mid-life crisis.

 

Whirlwind,

 

You hit it exactly on the head as to how I feel. Life doesn't come with a "how to manual" and once yesterday is gone, there is no "do overs" or no reset button to change those regrets. I do have my regrets, and not following my love of flying is not a regret I want to look back at someday day and wonder. "what if". Thanks for understanding where I'm coming from, and I hope your training and career ghange goes well.

[fry]

If you don't work in the airline industry, then you have no idea of the volitility of the business that the airlines are going through, or the uncertainity that we as airline employees face on a daily basis. We never know when or if the doors will be closed from one day to the next. I'm just looking into a section of the avaition community that has a severe shortage of pilots, and I'm willing to take the risk of starting over when it's MY decision to make, before someone else makes a decision about my career without me being a part of it. I'm going to be taking a hard look over the next 12 months before I invest that kind of money into a career change. I've been through the school of "hard knocks" so I'm not someone who doesn't understand the realities of life.

 

Don't mean to pee on your parade (well, maybe a little) but, if you dislike "uncertainty" in employment you should consider that flying for a living is not really all that secure. The jobs are limited, the employers negotiate hard and the competition is stiff...and benefits are generally available only in the largest companies. The helo employers have the same economics as do the airlines...high fixed capital costs. When business turns down the only place to cut is labor. Also consider, the "severe shortage of pilots" you're hearing about is generally coming from those selling flight training. At the entry level, less than 1,000 hours, the shortage is not in pilots but in jobs...and you will have to be flexible to get one.

 

If you pursue this you'll get plenty of sales types who are going to tell you to "live your dream"...now you've heard the other side at least once.

[Gerhardt]

Folks, don't pay any attention to Fry as he's a windup just trying to get people fired up. His a**hole posts on other threads here have not been constructive at all and are derogatory. He's just trying to create some excitement for himself.

 

I'm 40 and have thought about the same thing. I've just finished my helicopter add-on rating to my fixed wing. There are no flight training schools near here and I had to travel 150 mile once or twice a week for the past few months. Naturally I thought it would be cool to work toward my CFI, buy an R22, build some hours and do some training here. But it quickly occurred to me to keep my day job a bit longer. My wife is supportive...right up to the point where it affects her shopping budget. So I'll continue to log a few hours here and there and plan to work toward my CPL in the fall, then CFI next year, all just for the fun of it. Then if at some point a situation presents itself I'll be prepared. In the meantime I'm having a helluva time just flying for fun.

[67november]

first off FRY needs to admit his age

 

those of us who are in this catagory are a group that can/will be part of a sector of pilots that enjoy what they do.

 

so welcome aboard.

[fry]

Naturally I thought it would be cool to work toward my CFI, buy an R22, build some hours and do some training here. But it quickly occurred to me to keep my day job a bit longer. ..I'll continue to log a few hours here and there and plan to work toward my CPL in the fall, then CFI next year, all just for the fun of it. Then if at some point a situation presents itself I'll be prepared. In the meantime I'm having a helluva time just flying for fun.

 

Hey, why so hostile? Those are my sentiments exactly. Fly for fun. :-) Just giving you old-timers a reality check when you start fantasizing about chucking the day job, blowing the retirement savings and running off to hang out with the twenty-somethings. Isn't that what Doug asked for when he started this thread...discussion? Anyway, we're just daydreaming here. Of course I know you're not going to really do it...by 40 you've acquired enough common sense to know better. I know that from experience because I am a decade ahead of anyone who has posted on this thread.

 

Now, the idea of getting together with a couple of others and buying a used R-22 might be a fun idea to knock around here. I've done it with fixed wing...lease it to a flying club for rental and instruction...but the operating expense and damage potential might be considerably more with a helo. Anybody done it with helo?

 

And, as far as training goes, those in our age group probably have more in the way of resources than the kids looking for student loans. Why even go to a flight school (and especially a ripoff like SSH)? Buy an R-22, hire a CFI to train you semi-exclusively then sell the aircraft. The initial cash flow would be more but the total cost could be less and the training effectiveness greater.

[Doug]

Hey, why so hostile? Those are my sentiments exactly. Fly for fun. :-) Just giving you old-timers a reality check when you start fantasizing about chucking the day job, blowing the retirement savings and running off to hang out with the twenty-somethings. Isn't that what Doug asked for when he started this thread...discussion? Anyway, we're just daydreaming here. Of course I know you're not going to really do it...by 40 you've acquired enough common sense to know better. I know that from experience because I am a decade ahead of anyone who has posted on this thread.

 

Now, the idea of getting together with a couple of others and buying a used R-22 might be a fun idea to knock around here. I've done it with fixed wing...lease it to a flying club for rental and instruction...but the operating expense and damage potential might be considerably more with a helo. Anybody done it with helo?

 

And, as far as training goes, those in our age group probably have more in the way of resources than the kids looking for student loans. Why even go to a flight school (and especially a ripoff like SSH)? Buy an R-22, hire a CFI to train you semi-exclusively then sell the aircraft. The initial cash flow would be more but the total cost could be less and the training effectiveness greater.

 

Fry,

 

You're right, that's why I started the discussion, because when you've been doing the same job for a number of years, the prospect of a "new and exciting" career at first sounds good, but then sometimes you get bit by reality, and it hurts. I definately don't want to succumb to Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome, I have a great lady and a comfortable life. You know what they say about being caught in a rut, it's just a coffin with both ends kicked out! I've got a 16 year old son, for him this might be a good career choice because of his age. That's why I am taking a year or so to get my particular situations in order, and do A LOT of research in the mean time. I appreciate everyones comments, it's one of the best ways to find out information for what we're looking for. By the way, I've heard the term, "flying the ditch". Anyone want to tell me what that means? Thanks.

 

Doug

[fry]

By the way, I've heard the term, "flying the ditch".

 

Grand Canyon tours.

[Wesp]

I took the step 2 years ago. I was 40 then. Some call it a midlife crisis I call it sense. You realize that you're basically halfway and still have the opportunity to do something different for the rest of your life, something you always wanted to do but couldn't afford. It's not easy, but it's not that hard either. Shure I make far less then before but we (wife and 4 children, last baby born last week) changed our lifestyle and we are perfectly able to live with less money. It's obvious your wife has to be willing to follow you.

 

The World is full of grumpy old men who are always talking about what they should have done, could have done etc. It's better to regret something you've done, then regret something you haven't.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Menno CFI(H)

[poppachoppa]

Well i'm 43 and 4 years ago took the plunge , my thought was to train and get hired on with a established company ie; Agrotors , I got as far as a sales agent position here in the south , got a contract with a timber company , but do to equipment shortages was not able to provide the company with assets from Ag , Got pretty upset about the whole ordeal and quit , when the dust settled I relized what I wanted was just to fly , long story short bought a 47 G2 and loving it maybe a carrear one day but for now im happy and thankful just to fly.

[John90290]

Fuel for the 40's (and mid 30's)

 

Subject: Balance in Life

 

Anna Quindlen's Villanova Commencement Address

 

I have no specialized field of interest or expertise, which puts me

at a disadvantage, talking to you today. I'm a novelist.

 

My work is human nature. Real life is all I know.

Don't ever confuse the two, your life and your work. The

second is only part of the first. Don't ever forget what a

friend once wrote Senator Paul Tsongas when the senator

decided not to run for reelection because he'd been

diagnosed with cancer: "No man ever said on his deathbed I

wish I had spent more time in the office."

 

So here's what I wanted to tell you today: get a life. A real life,

not a manic pursuit of the next promotion, the bigger paycheck,

the larger house. Do you think you'd care so very much about

those things if you blew an aneurysm one afternoon?

 

It is so easy to waste our lives: our days, our hours,

our minutes. It is so easy to exist instead of live.

 

I learned that it is not a dress rehearsal, and that today is the only

guarantee you get.

[FXBGHELOS]

Fuel for the 40's (and mid 30's)

 

Subject: Balance in Life

 

Anna Quindlen's Villanova Commencement Address

 

I have no specialized field of interest or expertise, which puts me

at a disadvantage, talking to you today. I'm a novelist.

 

My work is human nature. Real life is all I know.

Don't ever confuse the two, your life and your work. The

second is only part of the first. Don't ever forget what a

friend once wrote Senator Paul Tsongas when the senator

decided not to run for reelection because he'd been

diagnosed with cancer: "No man ever said on his deathbed I

wish I had spent more time in the office."

 

So here's what I wanted to tell you today: get a life. A real life,

not a manic pursuit of the next promotion, the bigger paycheck,

the larger house. Do you think you'd care so very much about

those things if you blew an aneurysm one afternoon?

 

It is so easy to waste our lives: our days, our hours,

our minutes. It is so easy to exist instead of live.

 

I learned that it is not a dress rehearsal, and that today is the only

guarantee you get.

 

Very well put. It is so easy to get caught up in trying to make a living that you forget about life and that each day is a gift, because there is no guarantee that tomorrow will come for any of us. I don't really have alot of experience either in this field.

 

I just really enjoy the view from a thousand feet or so up. Yes I have talked about on here about the possibility of putting together a flight school and have got some good and some not so good constructive critisism. Guess it takes all kinds.

 

I do try to enjoy life to the fullest. I try to get out of the office as much as I can to simply "smell the roses". My family is by far the most important part of my life. My job is toward the end of the list - but we all have to make a decent living too.

 

We all need to dream and we all need someone to share those dreams with. Besides if it hadn't been for the dreamers in the world, we still may be living in ancient times. Might not be that bad.

 

Anyway, thanks for the post. Its good to keep things in perspective. A good friend of mine was a pilot with about 300 hours or so (Airplane though) - anyway he was 49 and worth several million. He had it all, big house, family, several businesses and a nice airplane. He and 3 other business men were coming back from NC - weather was not great, some rain, low fog. He made an error - missed the runway, but was too low to correct it, tried to pull up but hit the trees. All 4 were killed. He had it all, money, fame, family, success. He lost it all in an instant.

 

Be thankful for today. It could be our last day, but I hope we all live to a grand old age.

 

Thanks.

[jdegrave]

Hello everyone,

 

I'd like to hear some discussion from the "older" members of our community who are working in the helicopter aviation field. My reason: I've worked for American Airlines for 17 years and I'm planning on retiring in 3-8 years. I came to Tulsa in 1987 to be a pilot for the airlines but the jobs weren't there, so I opted to be a mechanic instead and vowed to one day finish my dream. I'm a fixed wing pilot since age 15. Helicopters has been my true dream, so I would like to hear from those of you who started training later in life and what lind of struggles you faced getting there. I'm 43 years old and I'm planning on starting my training within the next twelve months, instruct for 2-3 years to build my time, then retire from American Airlines and go fly helicopters. If anyone out there can comment, I would be most appreciative. I don't want to drop $45,000-$65,000 on training if the prospects of flying at an older age are not likely. Thanks for your time.

 

Doug,

 

I'm a profesional helicopter pilot flying corporate around at the age of 24 yrs of age. Obviosly, I'm not in the same boat as you. However, I have taught several who are. The majority of my students where about 35 - 45 yrs. The youngest was 28 and the oldest was 56. Most of my students have moved on to work as commercial pilots. A few just wanted to be able to pick up a commercial flight for the local FBO every once in a while.

 

The reality of it all is that yes there are several jobs available but they are for pilots with more than 1000 hrs PIC. Getting started can be difficult. If you are going to make this a career dissision the key is going to be open to the idea that you may be moving all over the country for the first couple years. I've moved 4 times in the last 5 years. That's not to say there won't be the possibility of a possition opening up in your home town but that would be pretty lucky.

 

The other issue is financial natured. The pay isn't the greatest for Helo pilots but it is getting better. If your thinking that you will be getting the money you invested to get your license back out by the time you retire you'ld more than likely be disappointed. Oh! Make sure you plan to be flat broke for the 2 years you flight instruct.

 

With all that BAD news said just know this. I DONT KNOW 1 HELICOPTER PILOT THAT HAS RETIRED WISHING THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN SOMETHING ELSE! Come to think of it, Helicopter pilots don't usually retire they lose their medicals.

 

I guess what I'm getting at is there is no reason someone over 40 yrs should be conserned about persuing this career IF they are prepared to make the needed sacrifises.

 

 

 

*EMS (Earn Money Sleeping) is a great retirement job. 7 on 7 off. That's half a years work. Want to take a Vacation take off 1 week get 3 weeks to do whatever.

[Gomer Pylot]

Yes, most helicopter pilots lose their medicals, and have no retirement plan at all. Having little or no income during what should be your peak earning years will have an effect in later years, with greatly reduced Social Security benefits. Think about it really, really hard before you jump in. If you discover that this isn't really what you wanted to do, you're screwed. You're probably screwed anyway, but in this case you're really screwed. I've been flying helicopters for a living for a very long time, and I promise you that it isn't all fun and games. Make very, very sure this is what you want to do for the rest of your life before you commit to it, although that isn't really easy to do. In any case, don't burn any bridges you don't have to.