Type Rating??

[maveric]

Hey guys!

 

"With your FAA pilot license you can legally fly all helicopters in America if the maximum certified take off weight stays below 12 500 pounds and if the helicopter doesn't require an aircraft type rating as specified by the FAA through the aircraft type certification procedures."

 

Now my question:

 

For which helicopter type is a aircraft type rating required? In know the special regulations for Robinson helicopters but what about "Eurocopter" oder "Bell"???

 

I´m a FAA-private pilot, so can I fly a EC 135 without a typerating (I know, in reality NO)....

 

Thanks for help!

 

Sandro

[delorean]

None that I know of.......If it's over 12,500 lbs, you'll need a type rating for it. Robinsons are the only ones that need a special endorsement (versus a rating).

 

It's kinda funny since the old S58s can't get anywhere near 12,500 lbs anymore since you can't get 100/130 fuel. But you still need a type rating for it.

[Gomer Pylot]

At one time you could get a type rating in any model, and there are pilots around with Robinson type ratings on their certificates. That changed some years ago, and now you are only type rated in aircraft with more than 12,500 lb maximum certificated gross weight, such as the B214ST or the S92. You don't have to be type rated in these to be second in command, only for PIC.

[arotrhd]

Yeah, it's kinda neat to be able to go directly from an R-22 and step up to a 412.

 

And as we were sadly reminded...

 

-WATCH FOR THE WIRES-

 

 

RIP Benny & Keith

[maveric]

thanks for answer!

 

But what about EC 120, EC 135??

 

I know a friendly pilot who is an EMS-Pilot in Austria. I have a Austrian-PHPL validation (so I can fly OE-registered helicopter, too). Could I fly his EC 135 legally? I have only time in R22 and Schw. 300.

He asked me, how the FAA-regulations are.

 

In Germany its required to have for every type a typerating...

 

Thanks!!

 

Sandro

[flyby_heli]

I have a Austrian-PHPL validation (so I can fly OE-registered helicopter, too). Could I fly his EC 135 legally? I have only time in R22 and Schw. 300.

 

 

If you had a friend somewhere in the US flying a N registered aircraft i believe the answer would be yes, you could fly the ec120 or ec135 or whatever aircraft under 12,500 pounds legally with no type rating.

However, being as it is in Austria and being OE registered, i believe you have to follow the rules for that specific country. Meaning you would have to have a type rating for every type aircraft you want to fly.

 

My next question though would be, how about if you have a N registered aircraft weighing less than 12,500 somewhere in Europe. Could you fly it on your FAA license without type rating?? Does the rules of the country of aircraft certification superseed the rules of the country your flying in, or is it the other way around??

 

Flyby

[GoodGrief]

@Sandro

 

You need type ratings in Austria as well.

Austria will go JAR-FCL-2 probaly in January 2007, so rating wise nothing will change.

 

Yes you can fly N-registered EC120s and 135s on your FAA-PPL, because there's no such thing as type rating for little birds,but as you already said-in reality-NO.

 

GG

 

P.S.

 

ZLPV 2006 mit 1. Juni 2006 in Kraft getreten

 

Die Voraussetzungen auf gesetzlicher Ebene für die Einführung von JAR-FCL 1 und 3 wurden mit dem neuen Luftfahrtgesetz geschaffen. Mit einer neuen ZLPV (Zivilluftfahrtpersonal Verordnung) werden nun die österreichischen Vorschriften für die zivile Luftfahrt so gestaltet, dass die danach ausgestellten Pilotenlizenzen den Regelungen der JAR-FCL 1 (Flugzeuge) und der JAR-FCL 3 (Bestimmungen über die Anforderungen an die Tauglichkeit des Luftfahrtpersonals) entsprechen. Um ein halbes Jahr zeit versetzt wird die ZLPV dann in Form einer Novelle auch eine Ausstellung von Hubschrauberpilotenlizenzen entsprechend JAR-FCL 2 (Helikopter) ermöglichen.

 

 

and read

http://www.austrocontrol.at/multimedia/ert...f?frame=leftnav

[maveric]

But I have only a Austrian-validation, and not a complete Austrian license.

 

The secretary of "Austrocontrol" (Autrian FAA) told me, I have all rights who I have in my FAA license with this "validation" (example: night flying). If I would have a complete austrian license, I can not flying at night and must have for every type a rating. So I dont ned a type rating with my validation.

 

Thanks

[GoodGrief]

Sorry to bother you guys with a foreign language. I know this is an English speaking forum but Mr. Wimmer thinks he's smarter than the rest of us so we have to do a bit of ground school austrian style...

 

ZPE zu § 39 LFG

(Anerkennung ausländischer Zivilluftfahrerscheine)

 

In Verbindung mit Anerkennungsscheinen und Anerkennungsbescheinigungen gelten ausländische Ausweise in Österreich wie nach den Bestimmungen des LFG und der ZLPV ausgestellte Ausweise.

 

That means: If you want to fly a different type of „OE-“ registered helicopter you have to get an additional type rating. With the recognition you can fly the ones that you flew in the US and that are in your logbokk already.

It does not mean that you can fly any other „OE-“ without a rating because the FAA allows you to fly without ratings.

 

 

Now, end of spoon feeding, look it up yourself!

[maveric]

Slowly! I have never said I am smarter than the others. It was simply only one question! But if I may place now here no more questions then find I that very very sadly.

 

Now I know it!

 

Thanks

[West Coaster]

Really? You folks in the US don't need type ratings to fly a machine you've never flown? So how does that work then? Do you just need something like 5 hours with a check pilot in that machine before being allowed to bugger off with it?

[Witch]

Unsure, but that'd be my guess.

 

Later.

[flyby_heli]

If you want to instruct in the type you need 5 hours as PIC in it before instructing.

 

To fly it.........if you can get it started, it's yours to fly as long as it weighs in below 12,500 lbs of course!! Not the smartest thing to do, but thats the regs.

 

 

Flyby

[Goldy]

Westcoaster- The words "type rating" means any type that the insurance company or the owner of the aircraft is dumb enough to let you fly !!

[West Coaster]

To fly it.........if you can get it started, it's yours to fly as long as it weighs in below 12,500 lbs of course!! Not the smartest thing to do, but thats the regs.

 

Good Lord that's insane!

 

Although I'm sure it doesn't happen often in the real world, the fact that any joe-shmoe can walk in and pilot... oh let's say an Astar, without ever having even touched one until that day... it's mind-blowing.

[GoodGrief]

Having been on both sides of the fence I have to say yes and no.

 

For example:

 

Joe has 10.000 hours of flight time in helicopters, Bo 105, EC 135, EC120, AS 350.

Now he wants to drive a plain old JetBox 206.

 

JAA-Land: Mandatory 5 hours with instructor and checkride (min 1hour) with Examiner, so total = six hours.

plus: type has to be put into licence, another approx. $30...

 

FAA-Land: He nails it at 2.5 hours, CFI is pleased and lets him go on the spot.

 

So, JAA is nonsense again (IMHO), FAA system is good.

 

For the young gun with 200 hours and no turbine time FAA system makes no sense and I'd opt for JAA.

 

 

JAA ratings are only valid for one year, so if I fly 4 types (common), I need 4 annual check rides, I need 4 opc. That would be 8 hours on the company for every pilot...insane.

Here again, FAA makes more sense to me.

[flyby_heli]

Poor joe with 10.000 hours if he ever decides to fly an R-22 or R-44.......needs 10 hours of dual instruction before he can do anything!! Thats what I would call nonsense!

 

Then you also have the private pilot, with 75 hours in his logbook, more money than common sense, who thinks he is gods gift to aviation. He buys a helicopter and after two hours of "checkout" decides (despite what the CFI might think) that he is now ready to ferry it back to his own hanger two states away......and trust me, these people do exist!!

That is just insane that he can actually do it legally.

 

The other regulation that gets me is the biannual flight review!

If you have your helicopter rating, but haven't flown one in ten years. Then one day you decide to go add on your hot air balloon rating (or any other rating). You take the balloon checkride, and voila.....you are now current to fly helicopters again!!!! Again not the smartest thing to do, but my guess is there are probably people out there that would do it......

[joker]

Before you all go slating the regulations, let's remember the onus is on the instructor, not the pilot or the regulations.

 

It is the instructor who must give the solo endorsement..

 

Remember the words," As per the requirements of 61.31(d)(3) I certify that I find JOE SCHMOE proficient for solo flight in the XYZ helicopter."

 

Thus the responsibility is the instructor's.

 

Now, if I have a guy with 10,000 hours in Blackhawks and other multis, and he wants to come and fly S76s, and he's already studied hard the aircraft, then why not give him an endorsement in under 5 hours. That's down to my judgement. That's what I must assess.

 

On the other hand, if 70 hour Jack, comes to me and says he wants to fly S76s too, I doubt I'd he'd be able to impress me enough, so no endorsement for him, until he was ready...that could be after 10 hours.

 

The problem is that people forget that the regulations describe the minimum requirements. As instructors, we have a moral, and legal obligation to prescribe more than the minimums if necessary!

 

Joker

[bossman]

Before you all go slating the regulations, let's remember the onus is on the instructor, not the pilot or the regulations.

 

It is the instructor who must give the solo endorsement..

 

Remember the words," As per the requirements of 61.31(d)(3) I certify that I find JOE SCHMOE proficient for solo flight in the XYZ helicopter."

 

Thus the responsibility is the instructor's.

 

Now, if I have a guy with 10,000 hours in Blackhawks and other multis, and he wants to come and fly S76s, and he's already studied hard the aircraft, then why not give him an endorsement in under 5 hours. That's down to my judgement. That's what I must assess.

 

On the other hand, if 70 hour Jack, comes to me and says he wants to fly S76s too, I doubt I'd he'd be able to impress me enough, so no endorsement for him, until he was ready...that could be after 10 hours.

 

The problem is that people forget that the regulations describe the minimum requirements. As instructors, we have a moral, and legal obligation to prescribe more than the minimums if necessary!

 

Joker

 

Joker,

You speak the truth.

Mike

[500E]

Ok so what hapens with Nreg craft and FAA licence in EEC

[GoodGrief]

Boy, those FARs have changed...

 

FAR § 91.703 Operations of civil aircraft of U.S. registry outside of the United States.

 

(a) Each person operating a civil aircraft of U.S. registry outside of the United States shall—

 

(1) ...

 

(2) When within a foreign country, comply with the regulations relating to the flight and maneuver of aircraft there in force;

 

Can't find the §§ now where it says you can operate an N-Reg aircraft with a PPL of that foreign country.

Anybody else ?

[joker]

Edited! -

 

 

As far as the local / foreign licence - N-Reg in EEC question goes:

 

We are talking about two different issues here.

 

1) Flying on a foreign licence,

2) Valdiation / Conversion of a foreign licene to local one.

 

1) Most countries will allow a pilot to fly in their airspace on a foreign licence when flying aircraft registered from the place of their licence. e.g. FAA licence holder takes his aircraft for round the world trip! Airline pilots don't need to have licences from all the countries they fly to, do they?! This licence does not cover that person to fly aircraft registered in that country.

 

2) Most countries (ICAO) will accept a direct validation of a foreign licence in order to attain a local licence. This local PPL will carry the same limitations as the original licence, until those are lifted by the local authority. However, that local authority's regulations will supercede the converted licence. For example, if that authority requires all pilots to have type ratings, then you need type ratings for all aircraft, regardless of what your home country wants!

 

Remember, it is the limitations that carry over automatically, not the privilages!

 

 

Joker

[flyby_heli]

edited...

 

Joker-

Part 61.31 (d)(3) still only applies to aircraft needing a category, class and type rating. Aircraft under 12,500 pounds does not need a type rating in the US, and being a rated pilot you already have the category and class rating.

 

If you take your airplane check ride in a cessna 152, there is nothing (except common sense maybe) that prevents you from flying a 172 the next day without any additional endorsements (unless the 172 is high performance or has retractable gear).

 

Same applies to helicopters. This is of course all for part 91 stuff as Gomer Pylot points out.

 

 

Flyby

[Gomer Pylot]

Helicopter or fixed-wing, the regs are the same, in the US. There is no such thing as a type rating for any aircraft with a maximum gross weight of less than 12,500 lb. Does not exist. I can legally fly any helicopter less than that weight. Not under Part 135, but under Part 91 I can. In reality, anyone is going to check me out before letting me take off in his aircraft.

 

I'm a Part 135 PIC, and was signed off as a PIC in the S76 with about 2.5 hours of time in it, including night offshore approaches. There is no specific time requirement, but the company check pilot has to sign me off, initially and annually thereafter. I had already been flying as a PIC in B412s, with well over 10,000 hours total time when I was checked out in the S76, so it wasn't a big deal, just learning the systems in ground school and learning the quirks of the model, especially the wheels. Autos in the S76 are lots of fun!

 

I think the US system works fine. The owners and the insurance companies police the checkouts, not the FAA.