dlo Posted October 15, 2006 Posted October 15, 2006 hello I have a quick question about the uvsc degree program??? If I decided to enroll in this, i can take my flight training at home and will i be elgible for federal financial aid. government loans to pay for flight training as well. i just want my helicopter training , through CFI II, i thought if I could get a low interest government loan then it would be the best way to go. I would be willing to take a few college classes along with my training if that isn't too much more money and if I could get a 4 % interest rate. is this possible, or would i be better off just going through salli mae and just doing my flight training. ???????????? Quote
Guest rookie101 Posted October 15, 2006 Posted October 15, 2006 Since UVSC is an accredited university you are eligble for federal student loans and I beleive you can tie in flight school and college into one loan. Two years of UVSC would cost you around $16,000 bucks (really rough estimate) on top of whatever flight school would cost you ($50,000+).Also while I've got a chance to 'bash' this into your head now, use the search feature. If you just type in 'UVSC' you should get topics on this already. Quote
dlo Posted October 16, 2006 Author Posted October 16, 2006 Since UVSC is an accredited university you are eligble for federal student loans and I beleive you can tie in flight school and college into one loan. Two years of UVSC would cost you around $16,000 bucks (really rough estimate) on top of whatever flight school would cost you ($50,000+).Also while I've got a chance to 'bash' this into your head now, use the search feature. If you just type in 'UVSC' you should get topics on this already. Ok rookie, thanks for the advice, but I already tried the search feature, I tried the search before I was a registered member though. don't know if it changed anything, I hear that alot on this site, "use the search feature"" but nobody posts on this site anyway, ive been checking on this site now for awhile and nobody really is doing alot of posting, maybe ten posts in a whole day , counting all forums, this is a world wide site as well, so by me posting a question that has already been answered, might be irritating to some folks here, things change and I could not find the message in the search. Sorry if I was clogging up the forum with my question, plus searching through various posts to find a specific topic can be time consuming, once again I apologize and this is only my third post ever on this site.... Quote
mechanic Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 dlo, I have looked into UVSC and applied and recieved admission. I have not taken courses or applied for private financial assitance yet, other than free aid. The tution rates went up AGAIN and now they are $150 per hr of aviation courses and $162 per hr general courses. Around $10k for 2 yr degrees and around $17k for the BS online. I wish they would let you split the degree Major/minor. I have not checked lately so I don't know if that changed. Also, did you read the pinned thread at the top of this forum? {Accredited Univ offering Helo} UVSC is talked about up there, too. Regards Quote
dlo Posted October 16, 2006 Author Posted October 16, 2006 dlo, I have looked into UVSC and applied and recieved admission. I have not taken courses or applied for private financial assitance yet, other than free aid. The tution rates went up AGAIN and now they are $150 per hr of aviation courses and $162 per hr general courses. Around $10k for 2 yr degrees and around $17k for the BS online. I wish they would let you split the degree Major/minor. I have not checked lately so I don't know if that changed.Also, did you read the pinned thread at the top of this forum? {Accredited Univ offering Helo} UVSC is talked about up there, too.Regards mechanic, thanks for the reply, let me know how classes go, did you say 150 per hour,, what does that mean. i am just trying to get a low low interest loan from the government for flight training, as I did when I was getting my BS degree. I want this to be a second career and salli mae and who else wants like 10% interest when government loans are about 4 % and you do not need any credit because they are gaurenteed through edfund... i don't know if this is possible to have them pay for flight school, but the college would pay for itself at that low of an interest rate and you would basically be getting you degree for free and flight training at a low interest ratel... keep me updated. I have not looked into any other programs... dlo Quote
Krusty Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 "Global Degree" what a marketing plan BS initiative. All U get is a FAA US licence that is not transferable to other soverign states. OOPs I forgot the US is the world or self appointed world police perhaps.. OMG what will they conjur up next. Let me be more clear does this progran really give you a JAR/ CAN/ UK licence as well? I don't think so! Yet another deceptive marketing play. I am sure the training for the FAA is good but the " global " aspect is living in the world of willfull blindness providing advice to unknowlegable fools. Just my 2 cents Krustry Quote
mechanic Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 dlo, I should have said per credit hr of the course selected, sorry. All the aid I could get was unsub stafford loans and because I make enough to knock me out of the free grants and I also am required to pay a large amount out of pocket. UVSC uses US Bank, Citi Bank, Well Fargo, umm.. maybe a few others. You can call or email the Fin Aid office and inquire about loan options. I think you are gonna have a problems getting a low interest loan to cover the flight part? But, good luck anyways. "Global Degree" what a marketing plan BS initiative. All U get is a FAA US licence that is not transferable to other soverign states. OOPs I forgot the US is the world or self appointed world police perhaps.. OMG what will they conjur up next. Let me be more clear does this progran really give you a JAR/ CAN/ UK licence as well? I don't think so! Yet another deceptive marketing play. I am sure the training for the FAA is good but the " global " aspect is living in the world of willfull blindness providing advice to unknowlegable fools. Just my 2 cents Krustry Dude, You join yesterday and now you are blasting the US and a College here? Where are you from? Quote
dlo Posted October 16, 2006 Author Posted October 16, 2006 mechanic, ya I think you are right, i probably will have a hard time taking out a student loan with low interest for the flight training part, I just do not know if it has been done. I am currently studying in another field right now and I do not need the aviation degree, I suppose I could take out a student loan and just put it towards my flight training. i bet the student loan part only pays for the classroom portion. and as far as I know, when you go to get a student loan, they do not ask how much you make and they do not run you credit because the loan is gaurenteed by edfund.. atleast my loan was here in california. the thought of 50k dollar personal loan, sounds like i might as well use a credit card with ten to fifteen percent interest. i would be paying on this loan for years and probably pay back 150k.... then again, i do not know how important is is, or how helpful it would be for me to obtain my AA in aviation. I don't think it really matters and it is quite expensive, through utah valley college. Quote
Krusty Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 dlo I might have just joined this forum yesterday, but this doesn't mean that I was born yesterday! Lets be serious here "GLOBAL DEGREE" Come now. Don't they really mean a US FAA licence??? ( with the drean that we are the world police) And dude if you havn't checked recently the USA is not exactly the most popular place in the world. Nor is it the center of the universe sorry to burst your bubble. Oh and by the the way - I AM CANADIAN - with US ancestors but I avoid telling people this for fear of Ah where to I start.,. suicide bomings.. I could go on.. Hey how about a big sandwich of mind you own fuKgn buisiness around the world. and guess what not every body wants to eat apple pie. Sorry for the disappointment. Good luck Krusty Opps redirect to mechanic! Sorry other dude Quote
Krusty Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 Let me lend one more piece of advice here . YOU are out of your mind to spend your money on a license taught by an instructor ofor CFI 2 or ten if he or she only has 200-500 hours with no industry experinece. What can he or she really teach you?????? When I had 500 hrs I knew nothing, teach.. you got to be kidding.. Krusty Quote
dlo Posted October 16, 2006 Author Posted October 16, 2006 Let me lend one more piece of advice here . YOU are out of your mind to spend your money on a license taught by an instructor ofor CFI 2 or ten if he or she only has 200-500 hours with no industry experinece. What can he or she really teach you?????? When I had 500 hrs I knew nothing, teach.. you got to be kidding.. Krusty[/quo Wow, this guy is off his medications again, I apologize for his non-sense. He must be canadian, where is that anyway.??? by the way krusty, that was someone else that said you were posting off the wall for only being here two days. I never said a word to you. Last time I checked, USA was the most popular place in the world. Everything you do, music, movies, helicopters money jobs, everything in this world has a little peice of the us in the middle of it. But canada on the other hand, I cant think of one thing canada is popular for, oh ya maybe cold weather, I never hear anything about canada, must not be that great of a place, since you hate the us. I wouldn't be on a us internet site. personally, canadians have always been polite, educated people who do not claim to know it all. and flight instructors always have 200-500 hours, it is where you start in the us. That is why canadians usually all train in the us, it is the cheapest place to train because of our great economy. Just be respectfull and answer your posts according to the questions that was presented at the beginning of the forum, not the us sucks and gets bombed, flight instructors suck in the us. canada is great, we are the best in the world jp Quote
Jackelope Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 Krusty- I'm not an older member of this forum, but from what I've noticed normally the forum is really good about sticking to the subject- helicopters. It just wouldn't seem like a good idea to me to go off on political rants when we're all here to talk about helicopters. You've got your opinion and your right to your opinion, I just don't know that here is the place to voice that opinion. dlo- I'd contact UVSC to find out for sure, but I think you're doing the right thing by asking outside sources considering they'd be more inclined to lie to you than some outsider would be. So I'd ask UVSC, but dig into their answer and find out the real truth. As far as I've researched (been researching all of this nonsense pretty much daily for the past month) you're going to end up paying for the flight portion with something other than a student loan. In my state (Arizona) I haven't as yet been able to find anything that suggests federal student aid for the actual flight portion. There are programs that help you pay for the ground instruction, but when it comes to the helicopter itself and the flight hours themselves I've not been able to find any federal student aid. Good luck, and let us know if you find out anything different.. but I've been looking, and looking, and looking.... Quote
PhotoFlyer Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 Krusty, This forum is not for sounding your political opinions or distaste (hatred?) for other world political powers. In addition, I suggest you do some research before you spout off about "a marketing plan BS initiative..." as UVSC's Global Aviation Degree is a combined pilots certificate AND college degree. Through the program you can obtain an associates or bachelors degree. Further, a US certificate CAN be transfered to JAA, you just need to take the appropriate tests. And finally, keep it civil, and keep it helicopter related... --PF Quote
Flyfisherman79 Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 Roger that in regards to the politics...on this forum. However, Mr. Krusty's points in regards to the marketing of that degree and how helicopter pilots are trained in the U.S. are 100% on the mark. Granted, like many other things, people just dont know how process the truth like that. Its accurate though....can't fault the guy for stating the obvious. Quote
mechanic Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 Flyfisherman79, Show me where on the UVSC aviation website they say you can work in other countries with an FAA License? Both you and Krusty read more into the Global Aviation thing than I did. I can't find the original card I had, but I was thinking it had what the Global Aviation ment on it. The schools programs are fixed wing based, not rotorwing. Krusty, The US's way of training heli pilots seems fine to me. Have you looked at a map of the US? Not much bush here or loads of bush jobs like up there in Canada. Lots of airport and city environments, lots of mulitple airspace to deal with. Sure, precise heli manuvering is fine in the bush, but in a city environment there is more to keeping the heli safe in the air in a large city than just flying it. Traffic, ATC, weather, heli routes in the city, TFR's, permanet no fly zones, heli ports on top of and around large buildings, military routes in the rural areas, towers, unlit construction cranes, and the list goes on... I know you know all this stuff already. There are just different skill sets, thats all. Thats the nice thing about flying you can find an area that you like to fly in and gain as much different skills as you want. Also, I would like to welcome you here as a new member. As a pilot with the amount of years of experience you say you have is always welcome. If you have not noticed, this forum is nothing like the JH orig. I feel you owe dlo an apology though. He didn't deserve all that you gave him. You did come across pretty strong.. Fly safe Quote
Voluptuary5 Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 The "Global Aviation Degree" is just a name; a marketing ploy. It's the same way other companies can get away with calling something "All Natural" or "100% Pure". If it's in the name (registered or otherwise) they have great leeway--it's a name not a claim... As with everything, buyer beware (i.e., read the label). -V5 Quote
Hawkdriver Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 Blame the US....blah blah blah.... The US is the only reason our friends up north have enjoyed relative peace since...hmmm forever. BTW..I fly GLOBALY and am not required to hold ANY FAA or other certifications. Quote
Flyfisherman79 Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 Flyfisherman79, Show me where on the UVSC aviation website they say you can fly in other countries with an FAA License? Both you and Krusty read more into the Global Aviation than I do. And by the way you can work for a US company (part 121) and fly to UK, Japan, or where ever flying fixed wing. Thats the schools main stay anyways. I know a 777 pilot and am gonna get his take, since he flys to Japan twice per month from Texas. Like I said, my feeling is its your opinion an thats all. A degree is a degree, even if you became a Dr. right out of school you can't just jump out there and open your own practice, geeshh..... Get over your selves.. The US's way of training heli pilots seems fine to me. Have you looked at a map of the US? Not much bush here. Lots of airport and city environments, lots of airspace to deal with. Sure, precise heli manuvering is fine in the bush but in a city environment there is more to keeping the heli in the air than flying it. Traffic, ATC, weather, heli routes in the city, TFR's, military routes, and the list goes on... Fly safe Hey Mechanic - It is a matter of reading into what they say. One would normally attribute the title of "Global" to mean just that, Global. However, this "global" degree is nothing more than a standard college degree and a U.S. FAA rating. IF, UVSC had a program that allowed the ratings (FAA) and then processed the student through all the possible conversions (JAA, CAA, ICAO or whatever) which would allow that pilot to work/fly unrestricted anywhere throughout the "Global" community....then there would be some validity to their claim of a "global" degree / Pilot program. Is it reading into it, yes it is. Is it a great marketing ploy to generate Profits, it sure is. Does it work for them? I am sure it does. Does that mean that myself or any other free thinking adult should bite, hook line and sinker? Personally, I question everything and will not beleive something that anyone tells me whole-heartedly. Training: I must have missed the bus on the precision / bush work. I was not commenting on that. I was commenting on the training aspect of 250 hour pilots training 2 hour pilots. It puts all of newbies out in the world after a huge expense, UNQUALIFIED, after flight school to get any kind of a commercial helicopter pilot job. This caused the insurance racket to raise the bar of "qualification" to a level that is realistically unacheivable for a person over the age of 18, who doesn't fall under mom/dads pocket book, who has real world responsibilities. I fight with this everyday in my training. Our training method, I will venture, is also affecting the "pilot shortage." Its counter productive, plain and simple. No other skill or profession is taught by brand new clones. Lets think about this for a minute. Is Basic Combat Training taught by Basic Training graduates? Is the police academy taught by its recent graduates? Are new heart surgeons trained by interns? Are the IERW instructors at Rucker fresh graduates of the IERW phase of WOFT? Nope - They are high timers, with flgiht experience, helicopter experience, and combat experience. Look at Canada's system. You are not qualified to be an instructor until you have soo many hours thus effectively eliminating a newbie teaching a newbie. Now, on the reverse of that, I really like my school and I like all the instructors at that school. They know the book stuff really well. They are all better pilots than me. However, I remind myself everytime I am doing a pre-flight that it could very well be my last. Someone will jump me stating the obvious, but realistically, are my chances of survival higher or lower if my instructor had a few thousand hours under his/her belt vs. a few hundred. The answer to that is pretty clear, no? I had the privledge of flying with a fella who had already been working in the GOM and has a few thousand hours. I learned more from him in 2 hours than I learn in a week with any other instructor under the current system. I am not knocking my IP either. Lets go flyfishing too. If I am going to pay someone to teach me how to be a tournament level fly caster am I going to hire the rookie who has been casting for a year, or am I going to hire the old crusty guy that has 30 years of EXPERIENCE in Casting fly rods at the tournament level. Who is going to teach me more? Who is going to make me a more proficient caster? Again, the answer is pbvious. Yep, the U.S. flight training system is counter productive and BROKEN! Its not about making qualified pilots, its about making money, just like every other aspect of our existence. Do I sound a little aggrivated about all this? For this I applogize, but I am going to finish my PPL and call it quits. I have a hard time being the guy who is teaching at the end when I wont really know enough to be anything but dangerous, and I am also not irresponsible enough to risk bankruptcy by being a CFII full time knowing full well that I wont be able to pay my bills, keep a roof over me head, throw away a career, and NOT be able to keep good Ol' Sallie Mae happy. Maybe in a couple more years when the current system is forced into change.....I will pick up and keep going. Until then, for a young adult that has responsibilities....to hell with flying helicopters. The payoff simply isnt there. Sorry for being long winded, and please someone step up and point how inaccurate my observations are. Quote
rotor wing Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 The school that I attended took alot of money from students. The school also requires the global aviation degree program through uvsc. Two years ago when I complained to uvsc that this school is taking money from students, uvsc denied that they have anything to do with any helicopter school. To this day uvsc is still doing business with this and other helicopter schools. Uvsc does not want to loose out on $17,000 per student. The tuition goes up every year too. The students are not able to claim bankruptcy either due to the loan being a student loan. Quote
mechanic Posted October 18, 2006 Posted October 18, 2006 Flyfisherman79, I was on lunch break when I posted. I edited what I wrote above. I didn't really think before I posted. I will be honest, I was starting to get a little ticked with Krusty. Sorry, you and rotorwing are having problems. I have had a set back myself of nearly a full year. I know all to well about family commitments. I have a 17 and 13 yr old and the wifey. I didn't listen to the hype and up and quit my full time job to train. I am going part time and use MS flight sim to keep the cob webs knocked off inbetween flights. I thought I would have my ppl in 18 months going part time, but here I am 2 yrs later and no ppl and trying to satisfy the FAA on a medical issue so I can get a second class med again. I have been reading heli boards since 97' and posting since 02', so I have seen and read a lot of suggestions over the years about training and jobs. About the training issue. I still say training in not the problem. The fixed wing side has the same problem. Many fixed wing schools offer large blocks of pay for training so you can try to get ahead with there programs. Many like and many dislike those programs. If all the flight schools and Chief pilots would all standardized there training syllabus's and mentor there low time CFI's things would be quite a bit better. Its also the lack of employers willing to have OJT'ing for the younger pilots. The industry was built around a good supply of qualified pilots from the military. Time will tell if this is gonna change things since so many are expected to start retiring soon? Krusty, What do the low time pilots in Canada do to build time? Since they are not allowed to CFI. Do they fly supplies from city to camp or what? Peace Out Quote
Krusty Posted October 18, 2006 Posted October 18, 2006 Geltlemen My sincerest apologies on matters concerning US bashing, but as an old generation Canadian, with ancestors that predate the civil war and war of 1812 in the USA, I like many others I am a little dismayed with the way things are turning. For the record let me be very clear in giving complete and utter respect ofr the US aviation industry as a world leader that has provided a great deal of advancement particularly in the field of rotary wing technology. Yet let me also be very clear that there are still hurdles to overcome with training and excuse me for holding the Canadian Helo industry so high on the scale. But really, because we have such a huge amout of BUSH here in Canada where helicopters are not just used from prepared landing areas as one contributor pointed out, the skill requirements here in Canada are quite different and the demands on - up and comming pilots are far more stingent. It is for this reason that I encourage those students that re looking for " great " to come to Canada and train here. The industry in Canada varies a little, for instance when a student comes to become a pilot and pay for a license it is almost an unwritten rule of the flight trainging unit that the instructor who may have 1000- 3000 hrs of operational experienec to be " up front withy the student after the first 20 hours or so and let he or she know if they have the skill that it will take to succeed in the industry. The first priority of the school is not puppymill processing. Perhaps my general understanding of the industry is different and big Kudos to those that love to fly helos that will never have to land on a 7000 foot ASL 20 by 20 forestry pad or run a 200 foot long line. Perhaps there should be a different designation other than Commercial pilot, for pilots who are trained to land on prepared pads. Maybe it can be like a "recreational commercial designation", that doesn't require landing in confined areas or toe ins etc. I sincerly apologise , and god bless the USA. Krusty. In addition I would also like to point out that there has been no addendum to the topic that fucuses on mountain approach proceedures. ??? We have a designated mountain bush course here in Canada that is manitory for those that fly in the mountains due to the difficulties involved. I would welcome further elaboration on this subject. Quote
mechanic Posted October 18, 2006 Posted October 18, 2006 Krusty, Naw, you have it wrong, Bush Pilot fits for the type of flying you do. Flying in the bushes. When a person says Commercial Airlines they think heavy iron on runways. So a commercial heli pilot could easily fit in with that term. GOM, Air Taxi's, Corp, EMS, Tours, and Flight Training. Though EMS is a judgement call......... Regards, Fly Safe Oh, you did not tell me what the low time guys do to build hours???? Quote
Krusty Posted October 18, 2006 Posted October 18, 2006 Mechanic I am glad you asked. When I got my license I showed up at a base in Manitoba all ready to fly a BH206 L1 ( Mr. Cocky), I got given the broom much to my shegrin!! I cleaned helos for the more experienced guys. Swept the pad.hooked up external loads and learned the practical operational side of the business. Like how to properly ground when fueling from drums etc. Year 2, I graduated to the company truck because the boss wasn't quite sure yet if he could trust me with $1m worth of equipment. The following year he got really pissed off at one of his pilots who was being a jerk and he sent me off on my first commercial job, and I didn't screw it up and the customer was happy with the job I did. The following year he asked me back and I got 250 hrs as a PIC on a long ranger (with the alchool cooling kit). The rest is history. Today I am a 20 year vertran of the industry. Not exactly history if you want to consider the 3 divorces that came along with the career. Damm I am glad I make a grand a day. Other wise I couldn't afford to fly helicopters. AIDS- Aviation- Induced- Divorce- Syndrom. Regards Krusty Oh and by the way that's me in the Photo- Avitar. You fly safe too.. Quote
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