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watchdogging time you are charged


garvey
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Someone had brought it up on a different thread , but I was in want of clarification . I did fixwing and was getting charged for redundant crap that I had just read in the book in a half ass ground school one on one "class " . I am planning on going to HAI and was wondering if any Alum could help me out on this question . I see the the ground school costs a certain amount . So , when I go to the class are we all in class in a group setting and we learn all together !? So rthat is what I pay--am I correct !? No extra hidden charges .

 

I am struggling to come up with the $$$$ so I just want to see if I can head off any .mmmmm , dilemas in the future . Where do I have to watch out about getting porked financially speaking . When I pay for an hour of 300 time am I also going to be charged for conversation after or before . I guess the question would be....when do I start paying for that hour . When the rotor is spinning or we walk out to the helo . I appreciate any input .

 

As long as we are on the subject.............any of you hai there

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Someone had brought it up on a different thread , but I was in want of clarification . I did fixwing and was getting charged for redundant crap that I had just read in the book in a half ass ground school one on one "class " . I am planning on going to HAI and was wondering if any Alum could help me out on this question . I see the the ground school costs a certain amount . So , when I go to the class are we all in class in a group setting and we learn all together !? So rthat is what I pay--am I correct !? No extra hidden charges .

 

I am struggling to come up with the $$$$ so I just want to see if I can head off any .mmmmm , dilemas in the future . Where do I have to watch out about getting porked financially speaking . When I pay for an hour of 300 time am I also going to be charged for conversation after or before . I guess the question would be....when do I start paying for that hour . When the rotor is spinning or we walk out to the helo . I appreciate any input .

 

As long as we are on the subject.............any of you hai there

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Wow- There's a lot of questions in there. I cant speak specific to HAI, but my experience, you pay for the hobbs time only on a helicopter, no more, no less. Most training birds use an hour meter tied to the master battery switch, if the switch is on, you're buying....when its off your done. No school should charge you for preflight or minor questions. Sit down ground school is different, you want their full attention, you pay for it. HOWEVER....show me where ground schooling is even required ? What is required is knowledge, and proof of that knowledge through written and oral testing. How you obtain that knowledge is up to you...there are much cheaper alternatives out there...

 

Good luck, Goldy

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Wow- There's a lot of questions in there. I cant speak specific to HAI, but my experience, you pay for the hobbs time only on a helicopter, no more, no less. Most training birds use an hour meter tied to the master battery switch, if the switch is on, you're buying....when its off your done. No school should charge you for preflight or minor questions. Sit down ground school is different, you want their full attention, you pay for it. HOWEVER....show me where ground schooling is even required ? What is required is knowledge, and proof of that knowledge through written and oral testing. How you obtain that knowledge is up to you...there are much cheaper alternatives out there...

 

Good luck, Goldy

§ 61.105 Aeronautical knowledge.

(a) General. A person who is applying for a private pilot certificate must receive and log ground training from an authorized instructor or complete a home-study course on the aeronautical knowledge areas of paragraph (B) of this section that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought.

 

Goldy ground training while not required for a private rating is hard to demonstrate proficiency without extensive query from a CFI. This would fall under ground training cost albeit not actual training if one chooses to do so. I have not seen ANY students get a private rating without at least 20 hours of ground. Ask YoYo if he would send one of his students for a check ride without ground. FYI ground logged is proof of training if you change schools. BB

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First, the redundant crap issue: I think this has been covered. (no pun intended) It is the instructor's job to verify that you have been given this instruction or have the required knowledge. And redundant crap or not, it's part of the course. Although a good instructor will be able to move quickly through the stuff you already know.

 

As an instructor, I charge ground time based on a simple principle. When I am conferring with my student and having a conversation relating directly to the instruction required to complete the license, then I bill for the ground time. While I have not had a student question this method, the first time I meet with them I offer to advise them every time they are on the clock or not on the clock.

 

If I am simply shooting the breeze with my student at the beginning or end of a lesson, then of course I'm not charging.

 

This is my personal policy. I've known some instructors who charge the entire scheduled time regardless. And I think it is their right to do so. They have to earn a living, as do I. The important thing is having a clear understanding between instructor and student of how ground time will be billed.

 

At a busy school, one must understand that if the instructor was not working with one student, they would be working with another, and thus any time not billed is income not earned.

 

Most flight instructors are not salaried. Only billed time is income. So even if an instructor is paid 25$/hr, he might be at the flight school for 8 hours and bill only 5.5 hours. This is common and brings the hourly wage down. This isn't a reason to bill more, of course, but is an explanation.

 

Above was my professional response and now here is my rant:

 

Other than military trained instructors, we all PAID our dues. (and Military instructors paid their dues in other ways) I paid my instructors for their time and you should also. My biggest petpeve is students who are penny pinchers. I paid $46,530 for my ratings and you will have to as well. There really is no getting around it. If you can't make it work, take another part time job. But squabbling over billing won't help much.

 

If you have a question regarding billing of this time, ask your instructor directly, rather than bitching about it on the Internet.

 

Finally, if you are looking to get a job in this industry, one big thing stands out: attitude. Keep that in mind.

 

Good luck.

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