Silver State Helicoptes in a nutshell

[fry]

Posted at another board:

 

Here's Silver State in a nutshell. If you are absolutely, positively, unequivocally sure you will get to the magic 1,000 hour mark and become a paycheck-earning helicopter pilot then SSH's current program might be as good as any other school. Although, if you are that confident in where you are headed there are cheaper schools for the 200 hours of initial flight time.

 

But, if there is any chance that you might not make it to that 1,000 hours then SSH is a risky bet and if you finance the training you could end up spending $150k to $200k (the loan and interest) to attain what amounts to a PPL; or less.

 

Now it will be the case with any school that if you finish training...you achieve the CFII...but somewhere between there and another 800 hours or so you decide not to pursue a flying career the investment in training, and the interest on the loan, is gone...lost...wasted. That's because a pilot's license is only good for one thing...piloting...and if you're not earning a paycheck from flying you've just got a very expensive PPL.

 

In addition though, at SSH you've got the additional risk that if you decide during training that flying is not the career for you you might still have to pay that $150k to $200k. That is because I have read that SSH's contract with the student stipulates that 10% of the contract amount is charged each month...about $7,000 a month. This amount is unrelated to the amount of service, e.g., flight time...that has been provided. If this is true and the student spends the first three months in the classroom and simulator, he will have spent $21k before setting foot in an aircraft. If the student flys on weekends for the next seven months he might have 60-80 hours of flight time at the time he is obligated for the full amount of the contract. And if the total amount of his student loan funds have been advanced to SSH he will not be entitled to any refund after that ten month mark.

 

That may be the risk with SSH (if the 10% provision, or something like it, is in the contract). Of course there may be the kind of aircraft availability or crappy instruction issues that have been discussed here and elsewhere but those may have been early start up problems and in fact those things can happen at any school.

 

Of course every student is going to say he is certain he will become a working pilot but, the reality is that at the time he signs that contract, unless he has significant experience in aviation, he cannot know if he will make it to the magic 1,000 hours. When he actually gets into it he may find he does not like the responsibility, the physical discomfort, the uncertainty, the risk or a hundred other new experiences that come with flying. A high percentage of folks fall into this category. Or, he may find that, after being around aviation for awhile, he does not like the lifestyle. Relatively low pay, odd work hours, relocations, family stresses, etc. all come with this job.

 

The point is, if the student discovers these things while in a pay-as-you-go program he just drops it and he has lost a few thousand bucks. If he discovers this after ten months at SSH he will have invested more than $150k for NOTHING.

 

Regarding Silver State Helicopters stated target market..."working adults", I'd bet these issues come up frequently after they finish training:

 

http://originalforum.justhelicopters.com/D...M=381462#381462

 

http://originalforum.justhelicopters.com/D...M=381625#381625

[fry]

An additional point, SSH is currently being sued in California and Arizona. The California case involves 21 plaintiffs and the Arizona case 10 plaintiffs. The California plaintiffs are asking for about $1.5 million in general and exemplary damages; and, the Arizona plaintiffs are asking for asking for $5 million plus in damanges (see below). If these plaintiffs prevail will SSH and its owner have the funds to pay the judgments? What would be the impact on the continuing training operations for students currently enrolled?

 

Excerpt from the Arizona amended complaint (Case 2:06-cv-02515-ROS Document 9 Filed 12/08/2006):

 

COUNT XV: ENTITLEMENT TO ACCOUNTING

 

144. All of the allegations in the preceding paragraphs are incorporated and

restated herein by reference as if fully set forth herein.

 

145. Defendants have accepted, upon information and belief, in excess of

five-hundred thousand dollars ($500,000) for their Arizona training program.

 

146. Upon information and belief, they have only graduated approximately

eight of the one hundred and nineteen (119) students in their class.

 

147. The Plaintiffs, and other students have legitimate reason to be concerned

that the funds which they have advanced as tuition are being squandered or spent for

other purposes other than their training program.

 

148. Defendants are holding student funds for services that they have not yet

rendered.

 

149. Plaintiffs, on their own behalf, and on behalf of the other students in the

program, are entitled to an accounting of all funds received and expenditures made by

SILVER STATE in its Mesa, Glendale, and Tucson, Arizona training programs.

 

150. Such accounting is within the equitable powers of this Court and will

ensure that the Defendants are held accountable and are unable to conceal any fraud,

deceptive practice, or other wrongful act.

 

WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs respectfully pray for the following relief:

 

A. For judgment declaring the contracts between each of the Plaintiffs and

Defendant SILVER STATE null and void and ordering Defendant SILVER STATE to

refund the full amount paid thereon, or in the alternative;

 

B. For judgment in favor of Plaintiffs and against Defendants SILVER

STATE and AIROLA, jointly and severally, for any and all sums determined at trial of

the case to be due as refunded to Plaintiffs for unearned portions of their contracts with

Defendant SILVER STATE;

 

C. For judgment in favor of Plaintiffs and against Defendants SILVER

STATE and AIROLA, jointly and severally, for exemplary/punitive damages in an

amount to be determined at trial, but no less than five million dollars;

 

D. For judgment in favor of Plaintiffs and against Defendants SILVER

STATE and AIROLA, jointly and severally, in an amount to be determined at trial for

plaintiffs attorney’s fees and costs incurred in bringing this action; and

 

E. For such other relief as the Court may deem just and proper or necessary to

give effect to the judgments of this Court.

DATED this 20th day of October, 2006.

[james28]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_State_Helicopters

 

there's their link in wikipedia. they don't sound to great there either. interesting stuff you found there fry.

[fry]

Here's what a SSH grad posted on JH; this appears to be the SSH point of view:

 

I went through SSH, got hired, worked my way up. I'm not crazy about the company, but they haven't done anything except provide the opportunity, which is what they promised.

 

People say the students need to study harder, well this is true of some, I had a lot of students that studied their ass off, always showed up to fly and just plumb didn't get it. With the "package deal" these people discover they don't have the "helicopter gene"

so they get stuck

. SSH markets to the masses, it works, and some people just will not be helicopter pilots. Sure, we take them, why not? If you could tell what someone's skill level would be just by looking at them, job interviews would be very interesting. Sometimes the slacker look teenager worked his ass off, sometimes the mature responsible type flaked out.

 

If you started training, and realized it's not for you, that sucks. But most of the people who are up in arms are either a)not studing/showing up or b)not a good stick. If you try, show up, and can fly worth a lick, you'll get done in way less than 18 months, many have.

 

"...they get stuck"???? Ah, but therein lies the ripoff. First, SSH charges 10% of the contract amount monthly...that's $7k a month regardless of the amount of services. So if the students are sitting in ground school or piloting a simulator for the first three months they will have laid out $21k before they set foot in a helicopter. Then, how long do you think it takes these folks to realize they are not "a good stick"...another three months, or maybe seven? Do you really think there is an incentive (or a policy) for anyone in the SSH organization...the management raking it in monthly or the CFI racking up the hours...to tell them that they "just plumb didn't get it"?

 

So basically, it seems that SSH cannot really support itself (i.e., the lifestyle and political aspirations of its owner) without the students who "get stuck".

[single_dad31]

i went to their seminar here in tulsa ok yesterday. i was excited because i've wanted to fly since i was little. i do work hard at everything i do and i know i'm capable of passing the course with no problem. after checking out the forum boards though, i'm not so sure if i should sign with them. people say to find a different flight school, and therein lies the rub. there are no other helo schools in tulsa that i know of. if anyone knows of any, please let me know. thanks

[fry]

i went to their seminar here in tulsa ok yesterday. i was excited because i've wanted to fly since i was little. i do work hard at everything i do and i know i'm capable of passing the course with no problem. after checking out the forum boards though, i'm not so sure if i should sign with them. people say to find a different flight school, and therein lies the rub. there are no other helo schools in tulsa that i know of. if anyone knows of any, please let me know. thanks

 

Consider...if you are not willing to leave Tulsa to find another flight school will you be willing to leave to find a CFI job? Relocation is a fact of life in this business.

[single_dad31]

with thre kids and a mortgage, relocation isn't much of an option. thats part of the reason i went to their seminar because they promised work here. oh well, thats life, right?

[flying high]

with thre kids and a mortgage, relocation isn't much of an option. thats part of the reason i went to their seminar because they promised work here. oh well, thats life, right?

There wont be a job there when your done anyway. so if you cant relocate then you might want to think twice.Dont mean to shat on someones dream but it's the truth.

[usmc826]

there is a big problem with silver state. They have got greedy and sign up anyone that gets approved for the loan. Then they dont have enough helicopters or cfi's. Right now my cfi has 26 students lol guess what flight time looks like. Right now I'm pissed off because I was told i could use my gi bill with them before i signed up. Now i come to find out there is only 2 silver state schools that you can use the gi bill at. And also they dont work around your scheulde you have to work around theres. So i would take a good look at other schools in the area before picking them. I wish i found this sooner but oh well stuck now. Only good thing is had my lawyer in the room for the interview when they lied to me. So law suit after i finish.

[500E]

single dad 31

If you are going to take a loan for the training think hard and long about it READ ALL the posts about schools on this and any other Helio site and then decide.

I would not chose SHH but this is just personal, I have an aversion to parting with money until the hours are flown and as for them deducting % each month forget it, if they don't trust you for the money for your days lessons why should you trust them? maybe down the line when\if trust is established block payments for 10 hours at discount Might be OK

If you want to be a helio pilot relocation is the norm not the exception, until you have enough hours\experience to land one of the plum jobs, and there are a LOT of pilots looking for them.

Click on training at top of page and phone a few schools, check out their payment plans, there are a fair number of School proprietors who post on this site, I know it is not the thing to push your school but perhaps one or two could suggest the payment method they use E.G. hourly, block. weekly with guaranteed hours for week ? not rely sure how VR would view it

Moderator Please Comment ?? I have no axe to grind as based in UK and have no connection with any school.