blue sky aviation?

[fly2001]

Anybody know anything about them? I seem them advertised all over and just wondering if anybody knew of anyone that attends or did. Thanks

[hoverflyr]

New school, no track record, save your money until they can prove themself, they may be another silver state, who knows time will tell.

[nsdqjr]

New school, no track record, save your money until they can prove themself, they may be another silver state, who knows time will tell.

 

I know Blue Sky pretty well actually, and it's no SSH.

 

The owners name is Ron Overacker. He's a fixed wing pilot and a businessman that has a pretty good vision. The location is decent, about 3 hours from LA. The instructor there is an ex Army Blackhawk pilot, nice guy named Jeff, and a great instructor. I went out there and instructed for a couple months when they first opened but between the lack of hours and a bit of a personality conflict with Ron I ended up finding work elsewhere. The good thing about Blue Sky is that everything is quoted before you start and placed in a contract that guarantees the price of the program as long as you put forth an honest effort. If you work hard and show up, and it looks like you're going to exceed the amount, Ron will discount the remainder of the training to meet your quote. They should be 141 approved in the next couple months and I think VA approved by mid summer. Anyway, any other specific questions feel free to PM me.

[hoverflyr]

So let me get this correct, you sign a contract (like silver state) and than the owner breaks the contract and discounts the rest of the training (like silver state) and you(nsdqir) quit (like many silver state instructors) and you have the nerve to say it's no ssh. You my friend are either naive or a great friend of blue sky.

[nsdqjr]

So let me get this correct, you sign a contract (like silver state) and than the owner breaks the contract and discounts the rest of the training (like silver state) and you(nsdqir) quit (like many silver state instructors) and you have the nerve to say it's no ssh. You my friend are either naive or a great friend of blue sky.

 

Hey moron, shut up and listen...

 

In the contract it states that you WILL meet the budget. Since that's in the contract the owner doesn't have to break it to keep it legal. That's why it's in the contract, see how that works....

 

I left because it's a brand new school and the student load wasn't there to support 2 instructors. I have 2 kids, so staying wasn't an option. I'm sorry if feeding my children offends you...

 

I actually instruct at a school in FL, so sending people to Blue Sky does nothing for me. The bottom line is that the owner is an honest guy with a passion for aviation, and I think given time, Blue Sky is going to end up being a good place to train.

 

I'm not sure why idiots like you come on here and whine about schools. The only way to protect yourself and your investment is to sign a contract. If you sign a contract and the school breaks it, it's grounds for a lawsuit. If you sign a contract without reading it and something bad happens, that's on your own shoulders. I'm still trying to see how my response would lead any intelligent person to associate it with SSH.

 

Have a nice day.

Edited February 19, 2007 by nsdqjr

[hoverflyr]

Sounds like someone got up on the wrong side of the helicopter, I think if you look at my original post it said to wait and see if they have a track record to prove themself.

[500E]

ASK yourself

1. Are they close enough to be easy to get to ?

2. Are the ships maintained ?

3. Can I fly enough hours there ?

4. Will I get on with the Instructor & feel he has the skill to teach ?

5. Can I PAY BY THE HOUR or block time say 5\10 hours ??

Well whats your gripe

 

D*m blades rotating wrong way today

[c.waters_ak]

*Bump*

Hey I'm interested in this school and was wondering if anyone had any more recent information on it? Thanks

[Darren Hughes]

*Bump*

Hey I'm interested in this school and was wondering if anyone had any more recent information on it? Thanks

 

Everything that nsdqjr was saying back in February about Ron and Blue Sky was correct. He helped me out quite alot back last september when my school in Fresno was leasing his R44 for their overflow. He let me come down to his place to do my SFAR73 checkride in the 44, he then offered his R22 to me also to get that SFAR checkride out of the way, cause I would have had to wait 2 weeks for the examiner to be free again.

 

Scott, the instructor there was my instrument instructor when he worked at Mazzei. He's a real good guy and definitely a good instructor, cause if he could teach me to fly instruments he can teach anyone !!!

 

NorCalHeliKid, who is on here was a student there for a while. Give him a shout.

[Rotorookie]

Hi guys

Just thought I'd throw my Blue Sky experience into the mix.

 

Although I trained in Lake Tahoe, I took my private checkride in Tulare, May 2007. Ron was extremely accomodating, providing me with a great instructor (Jackson) for an area familiarisation flight and an R44 with 108 hours on it for the checkride (still had that new car smell).

The school has a hangar, two aircraft, professional instructors, air-conditioned classroom, simulator and a very nice off airport corporate office. I understand that he has added more classrooms since.

 

If I lived in the Fresno area I would not hesitate to attend this school.

 

Go check them out and see for yourself.

 

Roger.

[NorCalHeliKid]

I attended Blue Sky from July 2007 until Feb 2008. Seeing as how I am no longer affiliated with them I have nothing to hide and anyone serious about going to school there can contact me via email and we can take it from there. I won't stand on here to be misquoted because everything in this industry comes back around. Feel free to send me a PM or an email.

 

HeliArthur@hotmail.com

[Spierman]

Contract - NO!

Part 141 - No!

Pay by block/hour - Yes!

Better yet, partner with someone or go out on your own, buy a machine and hire an instructor. Get some of your money back at the end. The other way is to lease an aircraft, but you would have a tough time finding an owner willing to lease an aircraft for training.

Do not pay retail!

Blue Sky is probably shooting straight, but why take a chance? Take charge of your own training. Do not put your future in someone else's hands. Have a standby school/instructor in mind; this is to get an independent opinion of your progress, should something be suspicious. A good, honest instructor/school should not be offended.

[NorCalHeliKid]

Contract - NO!

Part 141 - No!

Pay by block/hour - Yes!

Better yet, partner with someone or go out on your own, buy a machine and hire an instructor. Get some of your money back at the end. The other way is to lease an aircraft, but you would have a tough time finding an owner willing to lease an aircraft for training.

Do not pay retail!

Blue Sky is probably shooting straight, but why take a chance? Take charge of your own training. Do not put your future in someone else's hands. Have a standby school/instructor in mind; this is to get an independent opinion of your progress, should something be suspicious. A good, honest instructor/school should not be offended.

 

Spierman, you are wrong. First off, they do offer full training contracts and Ron will personally write you a quote as he did for me and all of his other students. That budget is adhered to as much as possible. Second, a simple phone call would tell you that they are currently running on a 141 approved Syllabus and are literally days away from having a full 141 approval. They have one instructor, Scott who is absolutely top notch. He puts all other instructors Ive had to shame.

Lastly, you are finally correct, it is pay as you go, and any and all money that you have on account, should you decide to leave will be completely returned without any b.s. processing fee or admin. fee.

The fact that you think leasing your own aircraft is more financially savvy is just plain retarded. That is simply not true. If you are going to get on here are run your mouth at least maintain some dignity and credibility.

[Spierman]

Sorry, I was not saying he is not 141 approved. I also did not mean to say the contract was no good.

 

I object to contracts of any kind in flight training, other than the standard rental contracts for the aircraft.

 

I do not see any advantage to going to a 141 cerfied school in the rotor wing world. I believe you are paying, in most cases, maybe not this one, for an unnecessary premium. Most people off the street can not use the hour discounts Part 141 offers because they need the time in the aircraft for skills. Thus, they end up flying the Part 61 hours requirement anyway.

 

I agree, the lease thing will not pay unless you have a group of 5 or 6 students/time builders who can get it done in less than a year. You also have to have an instructor in the group or available for the entire term of the lease. You are right, it would be tough to make this option pay for itself.

 

Sorry to have hit a bad nerve. I was just trying to point out other options for folks. I paid virtually nothing for my fixed wing ratings by going through the purchase - sell plan. The instructor was paid in flight time. The plane sold for more than I paid for it. I walked away with licenses and a fuel bill.

 

"Take charge of your own training. Do not put your future in someone else's hands. Have a standby school/instructor in mind; this is to get an independent opinion of your progress, should something be suspicious. A good, honest instructor/school should not be offended." Was just a beware paragraph because this industry (not Blue Sky or its people), the flight training industry in general, is loaded with predatory companies and instructors.

 

Sorry to have struck a nerve, was not my intent.

[freebird1401]

Sorry, I was not saying he is not 141 approved. I also did not mean to say the contract was no good.

 

I object to contracts of any kind in flight training, other than the standard rental contracts for the aircraft.

 

I do not see any advantage to going to a 141 cerfied school in the rotor wing world. I believe you are paying, in most cases, maybe not this one, for an unnecessary premium. Most people off the street can not use the hour discounts Part 141 offers because they need the time in the aircraft for skills. Thus, they end up flying the Part 61 hours requirement anyway.

 

I agree, the lease thing will not pay unless you have a group of 5 or 6 students/time builders who can get it done in less than a year. You also have to have an instructor in the group or available for the entire term of the lease. You are right, it would be tough to make this option pay for itself.

 

Sorry to have hit a bad nerve. I was just trying to point out other options for folks. I paid virtually nothing for my fixed wing ratings by going through the purchase - sell plan. The instructor was paid in flight time. The plane sold for more than I paid for it. I walked away with licenses and a fuel bill.

 

"Take charge of your own training. Do not put your future in someone else's hands. Have a standby school/instructor in mind; this is to get an independent opinion of your progress, should something be suspicious. A good, honest instructor/school should not be offended." Was just a beware paragraph because this industry (not Blue Sky or its people), the flight training industry in general, is loaded with predatory companies and instructors.

 

Sorry to have struck a nerve, was not my intent.

 

Spierman you have nothing to apologize for, you stated your opinion which was valid. They DO NOT HAVE A 141 APPROVAL there for they are not 141 certified no mater what sylibus they want to operate on. Under some types of training buying a aircraft and using it until done and than selling it is feasible and very smart. As far as a contract 'NO WAY ' I have been in the industry for many years and have only signed ONE contract for flight training with a very repubitable company called the US Air Force. After some investigation into Blue Sky they have been in business for a short time and have had a accident, not uncommon but suspect for a school that has no record. Wait and see, time will tell.

[Spierman]

Aside from military contracts.

I hope some more numbers of honorable people coming out of the military on retirement consider instructing, either privately or elsewhere. So I am not misconstrued, I am NOT casting broad-based aspersions on any of the existing ex-military folks in the industry. I am saying we need more people in civilian flight training who know how to do it correctly and will bring honor and dignity back to a falling industry. The military is not training the numbers and the civilian flight training industry is not upholding the traditionally high aviation entrance standards.

[ronover]

Hi everyone, I am the owner of Bluesky Aviation. Just want to clear up that we are, in-fact, an FAA Part 141 approved flight shool. I think that was an old post stating that we were still waiting. We operate under Air Agency Certificate #17BS893K for anyone that would like to verify it on the FAA website. We worked very hard to get that approval, so I didn't want to leave the perception that we are not 141 approved.

 

This thread has brought up some interesting points about Bluesky that I feel warrant explanation. These are my opinions, and obviously subject to interpretation. I feel like a contract is important in flight training because of the silverstate fiasco thing. I want students to know that if I do not refund every red cent of their money, they have legal recourse. I want students to know that if they drop out for any reason then they are entitled to a full refund. I am willing to put that in writing, next to my signature. My contract actually gives a student the legal standing to sue me if I didn't refund their money, or tried to charge administrative fees or tried to 'force' them to complete training here if they don't want to. Just to set the record straight, anyone can specifically request to not sign a contract if they want I guess, but not sure why anyone would want to deprive themself of that legal protection.

 

I also wanted to address why I elected to operate under FAA Part 141. There are many and varied reasons for doing this, but I would like to address a couple relavent to this thread. I wanted an outside agency,the FAA, to audit my company and make sure we are, in fact, providing a quality service. I open my doors to them so they can see my training syllabus, my instructor training program, student records and maintenance on the aircraft. I wanted the FAA to know they can come here unannounced any time to inspect us. The FAA has real-time access to our online maintenance scheduling system. They can also view student progress and scores to insure the program is being followed. We cannot get away with not maintaining the helicopters without the FAA knowing about it. But most importantly, I wanted the customers to know that an independent 3rd party has reviewed our program and is constantly scrutinizing the way we do things in the interest of quality and safety.

 

Also, I believe in the value of a structured training system. Under 141, my instructors don't have the latitude to do whatever they feel-like each day, but instead follow a cohesive program from start to finish. Since transitioning to 141, I feel much better as an operator, because I know the student is going to get the training he or she paid for. And, quite honestly, after transitioning to 141, I'm seeing students get their privates at around 40 - 45 hours, as opposed to 60 - 70 hours under 61. That in and of itself isn't impressive since you do need 200 hours minimum to meet SFAR requirements, but it is a testament to the quality of instruction. The instructors cannot 'time-build' on my student's 'dime' under a structured 141 training syllabus. (I am not saying that Part 61 instructors are 'time-building') But, as an operator, I have much more control over the training under a 141 program and this is why I do it.

 

I chose to use training contracts and a 141 approved program, among other things, to help give my customers confidence that if they come here, they will get their money's worth. We haven't been around for 20 years, so I cannot rest on my reputation and as a result, I have to work harder to earn my student's business. I'm not saying 61 schools are bad, or you need a contract, I'm just explaining why I run the program the way I do only because it was brought to question. Thanks for taking the time to read this and I apologize if I've hurt anyone's feelings, this is my first post on this forum and since I had some knowledge about the subject, I wanted there to be no mis-perceptions about the program we have here at bluesky.

 

Thanks again for the opportunity,

 

Ron

[claudio]

Spierman you have nothing to apologize for, you stated your opinion which was valid. They DO NOT HAVE A 141 APPROVAL there for they are not 141 certified no mater what sylibus they want to operate on. Under some types of training buying a aircraft and using it until done and than selling it is feasible and very smart. As far as a contract 'NO WAY ' I have been in the industry for many years and have only signed ONE contract for flight training with a very repubitable company called the US Air Force. After some investigation into Blue Sky they have been in business for a short time and have had a accident, not uncommon but suspect for a school that has no record. Wait and see, time will tell.

 

Hi everyone,

I run a very successful flight school, I work my tail off every single day, and I am constantly shocked by the damage a couple of

sentences can inflict on the reputation of an honorable colleague like Ron at Blue Sky.

A lot of people who get a kick out of bad-mouthing other companies should not be granted any sort of access to a keyboard.

And if they manage to sneak in, they should at least have the decency of using the spell check feature, instead of embarrassing

themselves and the helicopter community. All my students take their check rides and the familiarization flights at Blue Sky,

I could not recommend a better school in the area with a professional approach and friendly environment.

Blue Sky IS a 141 school, and the choice of training under 61 or 141 is always yours, according with your own schedule.

All my students had nothing to say but a great deal of satisfaction and respect, when it boils down to talk about this

facility in Tulare, and if I had to select a school for myself, that would be the one.

[NorCalHeliKid]

Aside from military contracts.

I hope some more numbers of honorable people coming out of the military on retirement consider instructing, either privately or elsewhere. So I am not misconstrued, I am NOT casting broad-based aspersions on any of the existing ex-military folks in the industry. I am saying we need more people in civilian flight training who know how to do it correctly and will bring honor and dignity back to a falling industry. The military is not training the numbers and the civilian flight training industry is not upholding the traditionally high aviation entrance standards.

 

So, we have figured out that BSA does have 141 approval. Thats good.

The contracts will save you money and so will the structure of a 141 approved school.

We are not talking about a pay up front contract, just one that has your name and an amount to shoot for in a quote, BSA is pay as you go and you can, if you so choose keep money on account.

The one accident at BSA was caused by a military pilot.

Most flight schools are going to have an accident on their ticket...good rep or bad.

[Spierman]

I hope BSA does very well.

The flight training industry needs more honorable companies/instructors...maybe BSA is leading the charge. Only time will tell.

I do not believe Part 141 saves helicopter pilots money, at least not students off the street.

I recommend, very highly, going military or training in your own or partnered machine. I recommend taking ground school portions of training through a formal, accredited community college.

Again, I wish BSA all the luck and fortune they can bring on themselves for their apparent hard work.

[Darren Hughes]

Hey Ron, good responce.

 

So C Watters, after all that debate you started, what do you think now? So far nobody on here that has had any dealings with Ron or Blue Sky has had anything bad to say about them. So that should put your mind at ease a little. Or are you gonna go out and buy your own helicopter to do your training??

[NorCalHeliKid]

I hope BSA does very well.

The flight training industry needs more honorable companies/instructors...maybe BSA is leading the charge. Only time will tell.

I do not believe Part 141 saves helicopter pilots money, at least not students off the street.

I recommend, very highly, going military or training in your own or partnered machine. I recommend taking ground school portions of training through a formal, accredited community college.

Again, I wish BSA all the luck and fortune they can bring on themselves for their apparent hard work.

 

You obviously failed to read Ron's response to why he went 141. He's a bright man and everything he does is calculated and with good reason. Thats okay, you are a broken record and you sound like you have little knowledge of how things work both on paper and in the air when it comes to civilian flight training. Actually, if you had ever talked to him about ground school at a community college you would hear that he has been talking with a local college for some time, to have an aviation program associated in which students can get ground school and transition into flight.

Edited April 30, 2008 by NorCalHeliKid

[c.waters_ak]

Hey thanks everybody for the feedback, I wasn't sure how that would turn out. I like the academy-style program at Blue sky and that is the main reason I started looking into that school (they offer housing, ect.) and I have family within a few hours of there. It's nice to know nobody has anything but good to say about them.

I am going to have to relocate to do this no matter what and from everything I've heard and read it seems like in the end you just have to go drive around and visit these places.

As far as going out and buying a 160k+ machine... the responsibility and maintenance and insurance and a thousand other things I don't even know about at this point would probably scare me out of ever actually flying the thing. I guess if I had the money lying around it might be different Also it seems as though going and putting your time in at a school would pay off more in the end because of the networking opportunities... or am I mistaken?

Honestly at this point I'm still working on where to find the money (I'm sure no one here has heard that before ) A month ago I still had it in my head that if someone could get 60k for college it wouldn't be that much more difficult for flight training (which I know is more than 60k...) but I have since learned differently... imagine that. I have been interested in helicopters for years now but only started looking into the particulars (financing) last winter so It might be a complete pipe dream to try to start training this fall but you never know I guess.

Anyway thanks again for all the comments.