Career Change?

[Flash37]

Hello: I am a professional civil engineer 12 years into my career. I am comtemplating a career change to commercial aviation - specifically helicopter flying. My concerns are the cost of training and the certain pay cut associated with my zero experience. I live near Ann Arbor Michgian and have not found any helicopter training schools nearby. All the schools seem to be out of State. I've read of a least one school that offers distance training - that's ok for book work, but what about physical training (actually flying)? I have 2 kids, a wife that works and a mortgage. Moving is not really an option.

 

Any feedback relative to my concerns and any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance to those that respond.

[kodoz]

Hello: I am a professional civil engineer 12 years into my career. I am comtemplating a career change to commercial aviation - specifically helicopter flying. My concerns are the cost of training and the certain pay cut associated with my zero experience. I live near Ann Arbor Michgian and have not found any helicopter training schools nearby. All the schools seem to be out of State. I've read of a least one school that offers distance training - that's ok for book work, but what about physical training (actually flying)? I have 2 kids, a wife that works and a mortgage. Moving is not really an option.

 

Any feedback relative to my concerns and any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance to those that respond.

 

Look back through the discussion archives and you'll find plenty of advice--lots of guys in your situation ask the same question. I can distill what I advice I think you'll get: not being mobile is going to make this career transition difficult/impossible (see Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome/AIDS). Cost you can manage with savings (what, after 12 years of hard work you can't fly for fun????

 

So you either find a way to make it work and adapt your lifestyle to it or you decide it ain't worth it and you don't. I decided to keep my Pharma job part time to pay the mortgage and diffuse the cost of flying; loans will take care of the rest. Did my home study before starting training, and drive 250 mi to Boise 2x per month to get seat time. My spouse-equivalent (no kids) knows what i'm getting into and is 98% supportive of it. That 1% non-support is knowing that it'll be tough when I'm teaching 3-5 hours drive from home and then working 6 mos up in Alaska or 2-on/2-off shifts in the GOM, and that i'm not home to mow the lawn now.

[72dpijpg]

Did my home study before starting training, and drive 250 mi to Boise 2x per month to get seat time.

[72dpijpg]

How much seat time were you doing on these trips?

[nbit]

I made the switch at 46.

 

There used to be Great Lakes Helicopters in New Hudson, near to M-14 and I-275. Tom Sherony who flies for Channel 4 Detroit ran it. Don't know if it is still operating, but worth checking into... Not far away from Ann Arbor...

 

Regards...

 

Hello: I am a professional civil engineer 12 years into my career. I am comtemplating a career change to commercial aviation - specifically helicopter flying. My concerns are the cost of training and the certain pay cut associated with my zero experience. I live near Ann Arbor Michgian and have not found any helicopter training schools nearby. All the schools seem to be out of State. I've read of a least one school that offers distance training - that's ok for book work, but what about physical training (actually flying)? I have 2 kids, a wife that works and a mortgage. Moving is not really an option.

 

Any feedback relative to my concerns and any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance to those that respond.

[Superman]

Bijan Air Inc, Located at the Ann Arbor Airport. They fly the Schweizer 300's, also a dealer.

 

734-769-8400 www.bijanair.com

 

I am not familiar with their flight school / training programs. I have been there and have flown with them, seemed like all right people. Anyway, its something close, go get your feet wet and see what you think. Other than that, come on down to NE Indiana, I can show you what R22's are all about.

 

Any Questions, drop me a PM.

 

Good Luck

Clark

[apiaguy]

If you really want to fly helicopters for a career you should consider:

 

1) Keep current job

2) Buy used helicopter to train in and build hours (even flight instruct in when you have your ratings)

3) Sale helicopter and recover much of your costs.

 

This path will let you keep a good income, not have to move until ready to take an entry level position.

 

You will gain invaluable experience in the helicopter world and if you don't like it when you have your ratings and or there are no good options at that point you won't have spent 50K and you will still have your day job.

[jehh]

If you really want to fly helicopters for a career you should consider:

 

1) Keep current job

2) Buy used helicopter to train in and build hours (even flight instruct in when you have your ratings)

3) Sale helicopter and recover much of your costs.

 

This path will let you keep a good income, not have to move until ready to take an entry level position.

 

You will gain invaluable experience in the helicopter world and if you don't like it when you have your ratings and or there are no good options at that point you won't have spent 50K and you will still have your day job.

 

That is all true, so long as he has a plan to pay for the helicopter... If you have never owned one, you have no idea what it really takes, and it isn't for the faint of heart.

[OhhAndy]

If you really want to fly helicopters for a career you should consider:

 

1) Keep current job

2) Buy used helicopter to train in and build hours (even flight instruct in when you have your ratings)

3) Sale helicopter and recover much of your costs.

 

This path will let you keep a good income, not have to move until ready to take an entry level position.

 

You will gain invaluable experience in the helicopter world and if you don't like it when you have your ratings and or there are no good options at that point you won't have spent 50K and you will still have your day job.

Along with buying a Helicopter you will also need to hire a mechanic add at least 5-8g p/yr for upkeep. Pay your own insurance on the Heli, which is going to be astronomical due to the fact your insuring a $100,000 machine that flies and you have 0 experience! And then add on the dollars to pay someone to train you, dude go to school and learn it forget about buying your own.

Edited August 29, 2007 by OhhAndy

[OhhAndy]

I am in your situation too but plain and simple, if your not willing to relocate "possibly several times "within 4-5yrs you may as well forget about Heli's. You see you have a min. of 1yr in school, another year building a min. of 1000 hrs to get a tour type job, and then a couple years flying to get to the magical 3500 hr mark to get a job you want like ems, news, charter,heavylift etc. You think you can do all of the above in your home town without ever moving? You may want to pursue somthing else because that is just not reasonable.

Edited August 29, 2007 by OhhAndy

[Gomer Pylot]

If you have a wife and kids, a mortgage, other debts, and moving is not an option, then commercial aviation is not for you, no matter what your age. You will never, ever make what you'll make as an engineer, and you will need to move regularly. AIDS (Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome) is common, and you have a responsibility to your wife and kids. It's nice to have fun, but life is about more than fun. You brought those kids into the world, or at least got them started, and you're responsible for their upbringing and education. Nobody is happy in their job all the time, so don't expect that in aviation, especially when your income is well below the poverty level for years. Money won't buy happiness, but neither will poverty. Given two families, one well off and one poor, I'll give long odds on which is the happiest.

[apiaguy]

It is not impossible to buy your own and resell it. I have done it and so have others.

Yes you need some capital.... cash... not a bank loan that will require you to insure the helicopter.

 

You do not need 100,000 nor do you need to buy a helicopter that expensive.

 

Look at a 269A or 269B or brantley or enstrom f28a or early bell 47 or early hiller 12b or c....

 

You can purchase a helicopter for 50-70K that will give you hundreds of flight hours.

 

Yes, you need to become friends with a mechanic or figure 5K a year for your annual.

 

You don't buy insurance (the biggest scam there is) It is not required... Yes, this is risky... duh, this is helicopter flight, are you scared you are going to crash???

 

The flight training part will be the cheap and easy part of the picture... see all these guys on this forum looking for flight hours?? They will come fly with you for CHEAP... sometimes free.

 

If you plan correctly you could fly a couple hundred hours, sell it and recover say 50-80% of your costs.

 

ok... i'll delete that

Edited August 29, 2007 by apiaguy

[slick1537]

OhhAndy... you just need bigger balls

 

The quality of this forum is degrading one post at a time....

[helonorth]

I won't lecture you on your obligation to feed an care for your family. Somebody already did that.

I will say that I think it is an attainable goal for you, and the children may not starve. It's going to

cost you around to go from 0 time to a CFII (instrument flight instructor) about 60k. That's actually

the easy part. The hard part is instructing for 12-18 months building time and making very little

money. I don't know if it is possible for you, but buying your own helicopter could be an option. You would not be insurable until you have at least a private, as far as I know. I had students who

bought helicopters to train in and did very well.

Also don't let people tell you that you must become a gypsy to become a pilot. I instructed where

I learned and now work in Gulf (of Mexico) and commute, as do most other GOM pilots. We work a 7/7

or 14/14 schedule. I never had to move.

You may not make as much flying, but our company did not have a pilot that did not make less than

62k last year. They will hire you at 1000 hours. The poster that said you need 3500 hours, knows not of what he speaks. You can think about EMS at about 2000, but the pay is about the same. Maybe less.

We have pilots making 100k. News work is probably the worst. Always on call and lousy comparable

pay.

Don't get discouraged. If you really want to do it, you'll figure out a way. Depending on your

finances though, it could be tough. Good luck!

[OhhAndy]

Are you guys really telling this poor guy he has a chance of not moving to pursue a career as a Heli pilot, cmon lets not blow sunshine up the guys rump! What are his chances of living in michigan, going to a local school, finding a CFII job, and then a tour/charter job, and then finally getting the job he wants with out ever moving??? The answer is 0, it will not happen.

[helonorth]

All I can say is I did it. If he can't get a job within commuting distance after his CFI, and can't or won't move, yeah he will have wasted his time and money. But I don't know the guy well enough to

tell him forget it based on an online post. Maybe if he explored his options more and gets a better

idea what's involved he can make an informed decision. The guy wants to become a helicopter pilot.

What I told him was what I have learned and don't think i'm blowing smoke up his arse. There has got

to be some flight schools in Michigan he could visit.

[OhhAndy]

All I can say is I did it. If he can't get a job within commuting distance after his CFI, and can't or won't move, yeah he will have wasted his time and money. But I don't know the guy well enough to

tell him forget it based on an online post. Maybe if he explored his options more and gets a better

idea what's involved he can make an informed decision. The guy wants to become a helicopter pilot.

What I told him was what I have learned and don't think i'm blowing smoke up his arse. There has got

to be some flight schools in Michigan he could visit.

If you went from 0 to hero all in one town I am amazed because your the only one I have ever heard to do that. GOOD JOB!

[Superman]

I don't know, but I haven't been able to find anywhere in any manual that for one to become a "Professional" Helicopter Pilot one must;

 

1-Quit good paying job

2-Take out $100,000.00 loan

3- Divorce spouse

4- abandoned children

5- Live like a bum for 2 years

6- move a minimum of 6 times

 

Flash37, like I said, questions, Pm or e-mail me, while alot of the advise and post here are worthwhile, one must learn to weed out the BS on this forum...... including mine sometimes

 

Clark

[Tweedles]

OhhPlease!

 

Look at the amazing metamorphosis by OhhAndy!

 

Posted on: Aug 10 2007, 03:53

"I have been in a career field for 12yrs and am thinking about changing it up and becoming a pilot..."

 

Posted on: Aug 29 2007, 20:18

"Are you guys really telling this poor guy he has a chance of not moving to pursue a career as a Heli pilot, cmon lets not blow sunshine up the guys rump! What are his chances of living in michigan, going to a local school, finding a CFII job, and then a tour/charter job, and then finally getting the job he wants with out ever moving??? The answer is 0, it will not happen."

 

From questioning prospective student to helicopter career authority in less than three weeks!

 

OhhAndy, please realize that there is a wealth of knowledge and experience available on this forum. In some instances it may be better for you to do more reading and less typing.

 

Tweedles

[OhhAndy]

OhhPlease!

 

Look at the amazing metamorphosis by OhhAndy!

 

Posted on: Aug 10 2007, 03:53

"I have been in a career field for 12yrs and am thinking about changing it up and becoming a pilot..."

 

Posted on: Aug 29 2007, 20:18

"Are you guys really telling this poor guy he has a chance of not moving to pursue a career as a Heli pilot, cmon lets not blow sunshine up the guys rump! What are his chances of living in michigan, going to a local school, finding a CFII job, and then a tour/charter job, and then finally getting the job he wants with out ever moving??? The answer is 0, it will not happen."

 

From questioning prospective student to helicopter career authority in less than three weeks!

 

OhhAndy, please realize that there is a wealth of knowledge and experience available on this forum. In some instances it may be better for you to do more reading and less typing.

 

Tweedles

Just because I have only been a member of this forum for a month dosnt mean that I have only been looking into becoming a pilot for a month. I am in very similar shoes as the poster of this topic so I have researched this out for around 6 months now, interviewed 3 schools, about a dozen instructers, talked to about a dozen schools on the phone, talked with numerous employers on what theyre looking for in a new pilot, just because I am asking some basic questions dosnt mean I dont allready know some of the answers. I like 2nd 3rd and 4th oppinions, its called research. I have two friends that are career pilots one with about 500hrs the other has over 5000 hrs so before you become a complete ____ and try to belittle my answer maybe you are the one that should be quiet, I am trying to give this guy some realworld advice of making a carreer decision in the exact way that I am facing, so yeah I am familiar with what it takes to make the transition. You on the other hand are helping this discussion in no way other than being an _ _ _ , I-m me before posting somthing so rude and attacking. I have not in any way mislead this guy about the truth of making this huge carreer change, remember HE DOES NOT LIVE IN THE GULF NOR IS HE WILLING TO going off his post. I realize that you can fly home every 14 days but for somebody who actually likes their family and want to be around them this usually is not an option, In my oppinion the GOM is more suited for a single or married person who is not trying to raise a family from 5 states away.

Edited August 31, 2007 by OhhAndy

[kodoz]

How much seat time were you doing on these trips?

As much as I could in 10 days--around 17 hours. Far as I can tell, I'm progressing at the same pace as other students who started at the same time. Doing 2 flights a day, keeping pace with ground (I still have to study some), and working evenings has been tough. Couldn't do it without gf's understanding and support, and work's...well, they're not supportive, but they are desperate.

[Tweedles]

OhhAndy,

 

Is it really necessary to resort to name-calling?

 

“...so before you become a complete jerk and try to belittle my answer maybe you are the one that should be quiet, I am trying to give this guy some realworld advice of making a carreer decision...You on the other hand are helping this discussion in no way other than being an ass, I-m me before posting somthing so rude and attacking.”

 

The jist of your post that I quoted earlier, IMHO, was more a dismissal of other posters’ (helonorth and Superman) opinions and experiences than it was advice.

 

This sentence from your last post, however, is advice. Good job. You’re learning!

 

“In my oppinion the GOM is more suited for a single or married person who is not trying to raise a family from 5 states away.”

 

 

Flash37,

 

Good luck with your decision. Gather up all the advice you can and make the choice that suits your situation best. There are the well-traveled paths into this industry, and the unbeaten ones too. As Superman said “...weed out the BS...”

 

Tweedles

[OhhAndy]

OhhAndy,

 

Is it really necessary to resort to name-calling?

 

“...so before you become a complete jerk and try to belittle my answer maybe you are the one that should be quiet, I am trying to give this guy some realworld advice of making a carreer decision...You on the other hand are helping this discussion in no way other than being an ass, I-m me before posting somthing so rude and attacking.”

 

The jist of your post that I quoted earlier, IMHO, was more a dismissal of other posters’ (helonorth and Superman) opinions and experiences than it was advice.

 

This sentence from your last post, however, is advice. Good job. You’re learning!

 

“In my oppinion the GOM is more suited for a single or married person who is not trying to raise a family from 5 states away.”

Flash37,

 

Good luck with your decision. Gather up all the advice you can and make the choice that suits your situation best. There are the well-traveled paths into this industry, and the unbeaten ones too. As Superman said “...weed out the BS...”

 

Tweedles

I never meant to dismiss anything these other guys were saying, I just dont feel its a very realistic approach to becoming a pilot for a guy who dosnt want to relocate. Why feed someone a bunch of false hope into a career he is looking into? Thats like a person saying he wants to become a pilot but dosnt ever want to have a mechanical failure or a close call while flying. The chances are you will have close calls and failures and maybe even a crash some time in your career. If your very very lucky nothing will ever go wrong, but highly unlikley! I think the same applies to a guy who dosnt want to move becoming a pilot. If the guy is a gambler and has more money than brains, then maybe he should buy his own heli, hire a mechanic, find a CFI to train him and pray he never has to leave his home town, who knows it may just work.

[captkirkyota]

Here is something to ponder......

 

How long do you have to know something that is a for certain thing before you can share/teach/correct someone or thing with that info? 5 seconds, minutes, hours, days, months, years????? Who cares whether he has been here for a month or less or more, if he has info that is for the most part true info without someone having to split the obvious hair that there is the extremely rare exception, it does not matter then how soon you begin to share the new knowledge you have attained, as long as one does not get all big headed about it and claim to be the authority on it and act as though you've always known it.

Something to ponder......

[NOETIME]

Here is something to ponder......

 

How long do you have to know something that is a for certain thing before you can share/teach/correct someone or thing with that info? 5 seconds, minutes, hours, days, months, years????? Who cares whether he has been here for a month or less or more, if he has info that is for the most part true info without someone having to split the obvious hair that there is the extremely rare exception, it does not matter then how soon you begin to share the new knowledge you have attained, as long as one does not get all big headed about it and claim to be the authority on it and act as though you've always known it.

Something to ponder......

 

I'll back you up on that one capt. Having eaten from the big humility pie on more than one occasion in my lifetime , i would agree that sometimes it's not the info but the presentation! And for the life of me, I'm still eating!!!! HELP!