Engine Failure

[TheLorax]

Im a student with around 42 hrs. who flies an r22 beta ii. Almost every day i go over safety procedures for an engine failure. A pre-flight check is performed before every time i fly. The possibility of death lurks closely to all of us.

 

What are some leading causes of engine failure?

 

High time ships? Old engines... Bad luck?

 

There was a poll i saw about how many people have experienced "in-flight emergencies". One of the options was "engine failure".

 

Any concrete causes that could go unrecognized in pre-flight for both piston and turbine engine helicopters? I just cant help, while flying solo, feeling like my engine will just poop out on me and where i will autorotate to. Trees? Concrete? A neighborhood with power lines strewn across?

 

Engines are extremely complicated pieces of machinery with hundreds of individual parts that contribute to their "keep on running".

 

 

Before soloing i thought "if i die, i die. whatever." but now; KNOWING that i have controls, and knowing that i am the vessel, between myself, gravity, and the ground, that can save my ass........ this is some brave sh*t. I realize im taking my life into my own hands each time i depart our rock.

 

I'm now speechless

 

 

 

PS: what does IMC and IIMC stand for. that thread made me pale. inadvertent instrument.........

Edited October 20, 2007 by TheLorax

[C of G]

The leading suspect is fuel. Be it contamination or exhaustion. There will be different mechanical causes for piston ant turbine, obviously.

 

IMC is Instrument Meteorological Conditions. Not to be confused with IFR, which is the regulations to fly IMC.

IIMC is Inadvertent Instrument Conditions. The leading cause of emergencies in aviation, but one of the least trained for. Except for unusual attitude recovery and even then most don't brief for it.

[rick1128]

The leading cause of engine failures, both turbine and piston, is stupidity. Running out of fuel, not checking the fuel, icing the carb, etc. Many mechanical failures will tell you in advance of an engine problem. Oil pressure or temps out of the norms, Engine temps higher than normal, unusual noises are some of the signs. I realize it sounds a bit hard nose, but too many pilots forget the check their fuel levels and fuel condition and lose track of time while flying each year.

 

The newer turbine engines do automatic trend monitoring and turbine engines normally don't fail without some help. A bird, ice, screwdriver or the like. Piston engines normally you'll have it swallow a valve or blow a jug. There have been some oddball failures like a dual mag failure or a gear tooth failure. Depends on how the engine is designed. If the engine is not turbocharged, it is extremely unlikely you will blow a jug. I have never heard of one happening in a non-turbocharged engine. The valve problem will normally show up as unusual power control settings and low fuel burns.

[C of G]

If the engine is not turbocharged, it is extremely unlikely you will blow a jug. I have never heard of one happening in a non-turbocharged engine.

 

In Florida a few years back there was a rash of blown jugs, (I'm thinking like 5 cylinders total) a few on R22's and a few on 300Cb's. Only the ones that wound up as crashes made it to the NTSB. The others were not required to be reported.

 

I wouldn't call all fuel issues stupidity. Sometimes you can have trapped fuel, and other contaminations may not be evident even with regular sumping. Air Log had a few w while back. Now if you want to say that most are due to human factors, that is true of almost all accidents. Even most true mechanical failures can be attributed to a person at fault somewhere down the line. Calling it stupidity is a bit harsh. Ignorance might be a bit more accurate, although stupidity does show up sometimes.

[rick1128]

Sorry, C of G, That is my opinion backed up by years of experience and observation. Getting the wrong fuel. Lack of or improper sumping of fuel tanks, not checking the fuel level visually, etc. I have read too many accident reports to change my opinion on this. Get in the proper habit pattern and do it all the time. It will keep you from most problems.

 

Jugs are made to standards that non-turbocharged engines can not exceed. They may crack at the base due to excess hours or you may shuck a valve. But they don't really blow a jug. A turbocharged engine produces enough temperature and pressure to take the top off a cylinder head or fracture it.

[joker]

rick1128,

 

Jugs are made to standards that non-turbocharged engines can not exceed.

 

That's what we'd hope, but not always true. Maybe we should change the word 'made' to something like 'designed'. For I've seen those jugs that CofG talks about. They had certainly blown in non-turbocharged engines.

 

I believe most of the 'jugs' that CofG was referring to were traced as being from the same cutting tool. This obviously rang alarm bells and the tool was subsequently traced and found to have a 'nick' in it, and so cut that whole batch incorrectly.

 

Is that a human error or mechanical!?

 

Fortunately, the tools only cut 7 jugs at a time, so all were easily traced and recalled.

 

CofG,

 

Long time no hear! When are you coming to the sunny part of the world? Correct me if I'm wrong about those blown jugs.

 

Anyway, it goes to show that a problem might occur due to the least suspected reasons.

 

Joker

Edited October 20, 2007 by joker

[TheLorax]

well now i can fly a bit easier. just a couple more questions...

 

1) my flight school uses the fuel tester 'beaker' type things. i've seen sporty's have their models installed with a little ball inside that will float if water is present. my schools beakers dont have this small ball. what gives? hopefully by standing at different angles in the light will allow me to inspect the fuel efficiently enough to notice if there's any water. any input on this?

 

2) what is a jug?

 

 

THANKS for the help

[C of G]

A jug is a term for a cylinder.

 

Joker, you are correct. A mfg flaw was the reason for at least the three in Titusville. There were issue with some others that were not of the same tooling in Ft Lauderdale, I believe, in R22's. And there were some others that were not of the same part number, but the mx dept tracked those down and corrected the problem.

 

As for water, most times you'll see it if it's not suspended in the fuel. There is a chemical test you can do to a sample that will turn it various shades of pink if suspended water is suspected.

As for visually inspecting the fuel level, that isn't possible in a lot of helicopters and also doesn't help if there are failed transfer or ejector pumps. Same for visual inspection of your sample. Air Log had some very well publicized issues a few years back that was, I believe, an issue of Glycol in the tanks. All the visual sampling in the world couldn't detect it. And more than a few helicopters had flameouts because of it. Again, I wouldn't call it stupidity. At least not on the part of the pilot.

 

Joker:

 

All is well in my neck of the woods. Who knows when I'll make it to your corner. Is that in invite? I'll have to look into logistics, maybe. Take care.............

[AngelFire_91]

well now i can fly a bit easier. just a couple more questions...

 

1) my flight school uses the fuel tester 'beaker' type things. i've seen sporty's have their models installed with a little ball inside that will float if water is present. my schools beakers dont have this small ball. what gives? hopefully by standing at different angles in the light will allow me to inspect the fuel efficiently enough to notice if there's any water. any input on this?

 

It's usually fairly easy to see if there is water in the fuel, now if it's all water though then you might have some issues. Apperently your instructor never did the good old drop some water in it while your not looking routine. On like the second flight I ever had way back in my Fixed wing days my instructor told me he would sump the tanks for me, then handed me the cup and asked if I would dump it out for him (We didn't dump our fuel on the ground, we had designated sumped fuel barrels). So as I was walking away to dump the fuel I saw something that didn't quite look right about it, and asked my instructor. That was his whole purpose of doing it was to see if I would catch it and what it looks like with water in it. So I would suggest next time your out preflighting, sump the fuel, make sure it's ok and really look at it. Then add a drop or two of water and then see what it looks like so you can get a good idea of what it looks like, then dump it out, DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES POUR IT BACK IN THE TANK I say this because I know of a few schools that the procedure is, if clean, pour the sample back into the tank. I do not agree with this practice nor condone it but apperently some places do.

[TheLorax]

thanks for the tip angel fire, and yes, i've been through 3 flight instructors somehow (this is a good thing) and the first one would just dump it on the ground and the second started telling me to pour it back into the tank.

 

so just a couple drops of water can stall out the engine?

 

peace

[Goldy]

so just a couple drops of water can stall out the engine?

 

peace

 

I don't think that a couple drops will kill the engine, but it wont help it either ! Remember the water will flow to the lowest point in the tank, so if you drain the sump..even a small sample...and especially if you do it after the ship has been sitting awhile...you will probably get every last drop of water out of the tank.

 

Since you fly an R22, I think you should be more concerned about carb ice and low G mast bumping...which is much more prevalant than actual engine failures. Be sure you understand the limitations of the carb temp gauge, and remember also to make sure to properly cool down that Lycoming engine and that will minimize the valve sticking that can occur.

 

Relax and have fun..Goldy

Edited October 21, 2007 by Goldy

[helonorth]

Im a student with around 42 hrs. who flies an r22 beta ii. Almost every day i go over safety procedures for an engine failure. A pre-flight check is performed before every time i fly. The possibility of death lurks closely to all of us.

 

What are some leading causes of engine failure?

 

High time ships? Old engines... Bad luck?

 

There was a poll i saw about how many people have experienced "in-flight emergencies". One of the options was "engine failure".

 

Any concrete causes that could go unrecognized in pre-flight for both piston and turbine engine helicopters? I just cant help, while flying solo, feeling like my engine will just poop out on me and where i will autorotate to. Trees? Concrete? A neighborhood with power lines strewn across?

 

Engines are extremely complicated pieces of machinery with hundreds of individual parts that contribute to their "keep on running".

Before soloing i thought "if i die, i die. whatever." but now; KNOWING that i have controls, and knowing that i am the vessel, between myself, gravity, and the ground, that can save my ass........ this is some brave sh*t. I realize im taking my life into my own hands each time i depart our rock.

 

I'm now speechless

PS: what does IMC and IIMC stand for. that thread made me pale. inadvertent instrument.........

 

 

Lorax,

A well maintained engine will probably never fail, but I do know the feeling "what if it does?"

As I see it, an engine failure is not something to be that scared about. Not lowering the

collective immediately, if it happens, would be scary because it will have severe consequences.

When you get more comfortable with autorotations, I think a lot of your fear will subside.

I have seen practice autorotations go terribly wrong, and everyone walked away. Get the

collective down and I would say you have a very good chance of being unhurt. The

helicopter may be junk, but who cares? Also, running out of gas is not an engine failure,

is it? You run out of gas in your car, you don't go to a mechanic and tell them your

"engine failed"? Don't play around with fuel and keep a close eye on your helicopter

and you'll probably never have a problem.

[TheLorax]

sweet, thanks for the reassurance. i shall become one with the machine.