Computer Simulator Intrument Training

[arlnepilot]

I was wondering if anybody could recommend what they think to be the best helicopter flight simulator program for intrument training, and joysticks made for a home computer. Pluses, and minuses to them would be great to. Thank you in advance.

[67november]

there was an extensive discussion on this topic, do a search and you'll find it.

 

the overall conclusion was spend the money on lessons not the simulator.

 

the Fly-it simulator is popular with many flight schools, buy a couple hours there to give it a try.

[Kelly N.]

Not specific to instrument flight training, but this article (below) on hovercontrol.com makes a bit of sense to me (especially since for the cost of 2-3 lessons, I can work on R-22 instrument positions and get more familiar with the cockpit - sort of - and also practice the procedures like keeping track of altitude, speed, and position during normal patterns).

 

I only get out to fly 2 times a week at most and find I spend about the first 15mins of the lesson getting used to finding gauges and re-familiarizing myself with the specifc steps of what I'm actually trying to do. Granted, I'm a newbie, but the idea of focusing on the things I can only do in a real helicopter vs. trying to remember the other details that I could cover on a PC sim seems like it will work for me.

 

For example, practicing PSTRC (power, speed, trim, RPM, course) checks in the pattern are not even close to second nature to me yet, but I think I could productively practice those on a PC sim.

 

Of course, I could be completely wrong. However, since I'm going to be spending a lot of $$ on this anyway, another grand risked on possibly making my time in the actual craft more productive seems like it's worth it to me.

 

I guess it depends on what your comfortable with and how you learn as an individual. As a supplement to the real thing, it doesn't seem like a bad idea.

 

Kelly

 

http://www.hovercontrol.com/artman/publish/article_71.shtml

[Wannabe1]

Kelly, I agree with you.

 

I am also looking at this as a newbe. I have three lessons in so far, all last week. I don't have any frame of reference other than my progress and comfort level flying so far. I have a home computer, nothing special, four years old. I also have a Saitek X35T joystick and Saitek X36F throttle (turn the throttle around so back/up is up collective) along with the Pro flight rudder pedals. I use Microsofts X-plane which has a R22 as a trainer. I spent some time with the Xplane before my first lesson and use it after my lessons to practice what the CFI gave me each lesson.

 

Again, I don't have any reference, but in the real R22 now I can do a pretty good job hovering including clearing turns, air taxi is wobbly but at a pretty steady speed and not too far off the line, maintaining air speed at a specific altitude is no problem, I can find gages at the first glance, take offs and landings to a hover are going pretty well.

 

My CFI gave me a drawing with the pattern and details of what to do when in the pattern. I spent some time with it this weekend on X-Planes including making the radio calls. I would expect this will help a ton tomorrow at my lesson if nothing else, it should reduce my stress level. Holding a button down (talking on a radio) while keeping the helicopter under control was pretty hard on the sim at first to get right without going wobbly. Now I can do it okay. We shall see tomorrow.

 

I had the joystick and throttle, but they cost about $100, the pedals cost about $100 and X-Planes cost about $40 back when. I think a pretty cheap intro into helicopters.

 

 

I guess it depends on what your comfortable with and how you learn as an individual. As a supplement to the real thing, it doesn't seem like a bad idea.

 

Kelly

 

http://www.hovercontrol.com/artman/publish/article_71.shtml

[THE_COYOTE]

You can use Microsoft flight sim for procedures, but I wouldn't use a helicopter. Find a cockpit with instruments close to what you are learning on. Have your approach plates with you and truly fly the procedures. I also recommend autopilot usage, you are not learning how to fly a computer sim, you are learning procedures. Good luck hope this helps. By the way hovercontrol has some great aircraft, the skycrane is close in some ways.

[Kelly N.]

Cool. I saw that Microsoft FlightSim X has an R22 Beta II which was what I was intending to work with (but I'll work with the planes too). Has anyone done any work with the R22 in FSX? From the screen shots I saw it looked like the gauges were in the right spots, but I couldn't say for sure.

 

Thanks all the feeback/advice (Wannabe1/Coyote). I'll hold an open mind about it and see if it helps me any.

 

Thanks,

Kelly

[Goldy]

Cool. I saw that Microsoft FlightSim X has an R22 Beta II which was what I was intending to work with (but I'll work with the planes too). Has anyone done any work with the R22 in FSX? From the screen shots I saw it looked like the gauges were in the right spots, but I couldn't say for sure.

 

Thanks all the feeback/advice (Wannabe1/Coyote). I'll hold an open mind about it and see if it helps me any.

 

Thanks,

Kelly

 

THe official FLy It simulator uses Microsoft Flight Sim as its engine. I like the B 206 in there...

[Kelly N.]

THe official FLy It simulator uses Microsoft Flight Sim as its engine. I like the B 206 in there...

 

I didn't know that. I've used the FlyIt a few times out at my school and never noticed that it was the microsoft flight sim (ding myself 10pts on observation skills).

 

I saw the Bell 206 on the website, but I don't have the software yet. It definitely was one that I'll be trying out later down the road. I've also read some articles indicating the 206 in MSFX is pretty good sim of the real thing as far as the performance limitations, handling, and cockpit instruments are concerned. I hadn't seen anything similar as for reviews of the R22 in the sim (the performance limitations on the MSFX web page for the R22BII looked close to the POH #'s but that doesn't really mean much I guess).

 

Kelly N.

[goromadgo]

Has anyone modified their throttle to make a decent throttle/collective? If so could you post some pictures? I have a Saitek X52 and trying to figure out how I could convert that for helos. Surprised with the popularity of flight sims that there arn't any cyclic and collective/throttle setups out there...

[Wannabe1]

I don't know about getting a throttle and a collective simulator, but simply reversing the separate Saitek joystick throttle (as in, pulling back increases collective/power) and tipping the throttle down a bit in front so the travel is more vertical; then setting it on a wastebasket or something next to you works pretty well. Get the foot pedals and you are all set!

 

 

 

Has anyone modified their throttle to make a decent throttle/collective? If so could you post some pictures? I have a Saitek X52 and trying to figure out how I could convert that for helos. Surprised with the popularity of flight sims that there arn't any cyclic and collective/throttle setups out there...

[Kelly N.]

I don't know about getting a throttle and a collective simulator, but simply reversing the separate Saitek joystick throttle (as in, pulling back increases collective/power) and tipping the throttle down a bit in front so the travel is more vertical; then setting it on a wastebasket or something next to you works pretty well. Get the foot pedals and you are all set!

 

 

I was going to look at mounting the Saitek throttle on the side of the chair so it's positioned more like a collective. I wasn't going to worry about throttle (not that off base since the governor is on for normal flight anyway). Obviously, the manual throttle control is something that's best done in the real thing.

 

I also was planning on getting one of the chair mount platforms for the joystick so the cyclic is correctly positioned and I can rest my arm on my leg like I would in the actual helo.

 

Downloading MSFSX now and going to try it on my laptop before I spend the $$ for a new desktop system.

 

Kelly

[cherminator]

Has anyone modified their throttle to make a decent throttle/collective? If so could you post some pictures? I have a Saitek X52 and trying to figure out how I could convert that for helos. Surprised with the popularity of flight sims that there arn't any cyclic and collective/throttle setups out there...

 

What about this?:

 

http://www.flightlink.com/hardware/rotorwing/index.html

 

Has anyone here tried this set up? You can also buy the controls separately.

Edited February 13, 2008 by cherminator

[Kelly N.]

What about this?:

 

http://www.flightlink.com/hardware/rotorwing/index.html

 

Has anyone here tried this set up? You can also buy the controls separately.

 

I came across that site while investigating my options, but at $320 (with the standalone USB option) it's a little pricey compared to $99 for both cycle (joystick) and coll. (thrust control) from saitek at Best Buy.

 

I saw someone on HeliTorque posting a pic of their setup and it looked pretty similar. If I remember, they paid well around 2k for theirs (full deal with the chair, pedals, coll, cyclic, panel).

 

Pretty cool but a bit out of my budget right now for a sim setup.

 

Kelly

[Billwants2fly]

I came across that site while investigating my options, but at $320 (with the standalone USB option) it's a little pricey compared to $99 for both cycle (joystick) and coll. (thrust control) from saitek at Best Buy.

 

I saw someone on HeliTorque posting a pic of their setup and it looked pretty similar. If I remember, they paid well around 2k for theirs (full deal with the chair, pedals, coll, cyclic, panel).

 

Pretty cool but a bit out of my budget right now for a sim setup.

 

Kelly

 

I saw that expensive set up also...would love to have it but like you the budget just won't work. I do have msfx and the saitek 52 jotstick and foot pedals and i turn the throttle around backwards. I loaded msfx into my laptop and I definately need a desktop. although it works its not always smooth and it messes me up do to some lag at times and I tried to load msfx accelerator and it would not work. It has helped me understand some basic principles on how to fly a helicopter and I have yet to have a lesson. I mostly look forward to using it to learn about navigation and using the radio so hopefully by the time I start training I will have a good grasp on it. Also anyone looking to buy controls and msfx got to Amazon.com...I got my cotrols a bit cheaper than Best Buy and no sales tax which saved me about $40.

[arlnepilot]

Thanks guys, I appreciate all the input. I am basically wanting to just keep my helo intrument skills up without having to buy helo time to do it, so I am trying to find the best computer program that would accomplish that. I use to use Microsoft flight sim, and it did a pretty good job for airplanes, but the helo sucked, it was a Bell-206 at that time. Anyway, I will go thru all the links you guys supplied. Thanks for your time.

[Wannabe1]

I occurs to me that maybe more detail is in order on Microsoft Simulator X and the R22. You were looking for instrument training/review. Forget about going through the maze etc, it is a waste of time as you have to use an external view to keep out of the cliffs. While in the R22, say mission 11, if you press the F10 command you will get a very reduced windscreen and very detailed gages. The radio stack, GPS, collective, map, engine gages are all available via a row of buttons below the gages. The outside view will be very limited. Press F9 and you get a virtual cockpit with flight gages (but harder to read) and a good VFR view. In F10 you can shut down, start up, trim, radio, etc to your hearts content. Press the left hat switch on your joystick in F10 and you get a quick view left and right. In the F9 cockpit, the view moves to your desired outside view and stays put. On a desktop at full res, full scenery full traffic, full weather, you can fly around Kauai to your hearts content using a couple of radio beacons or GPS if you like.

 

Now, all that being said, it is IMHO and I am NOT anywhere near being a pilot yet (4 ish hours) so proceed accordingly. Comparing the Sim to the real R22 the MS X is a bit forgiving on the joystick and some pretty wild movements can be made without crashing, torque is not quite right, you can't feel translational lift, you have to use the mouse to chop power for autos as the joystick throttle just raises and lowers collective, etc etc, but it has been very useful to this newbe. It taught me basic movements, reactions, sight picture for proper decent, made me a hovering maniac (on a PC anyway). In F10 mode, I would sure think it would be helpful to instrument review.

[arlnepilot]

Hey Wannabe1, thanks, I appreciate the info.

[Goldy]

The one area I have noticed with ANY simulator I have used, including the FlyIt..the collective is tied to the yaw....it shoud be the manifold pressure or torque that is tied to the yaw. Because of this, when you flare in an auto, you have to add pedal as if you were adding power...which you are not...

 

Gets me every time.

[helo08]

One other thing that you could use as long as you have FS9 is FSNavigator. It's freeware now and is an excellent program. You can fly flight plans from it. You can pop-up overlays of Intersections and Low level airways. I'm not sure where your going with the Instrument; whether it be actual instrument flying or just getting used to the layout of the instrument panel.

 

If you want more info just PM me and I'll be glad to help you.

[Privateer]

I've found the Micrsoft X simulator to be a good training aid for learning instrument flying. I just set it to easy flight mode on an airplane and concentrate more on setting the radios, tuning the VOR's etc. and managing approaches. It's pretty cool when you make that first all instrument flight and watching the VOR's come in, then fly the localizer in to the runway. I'd spend 30 minutes or so each night as a supplement to my book work, and it seemed to pay off, since now I concentrate more on flying the correct procedures, not trying to setup my instruments.

[Kelly N.]

Hey all,

 

I finally got around to trying to setup FS2004 and am having a problem getting the controls setup so the thing will fly. I have two main issues:

 

1. When I ease up even a millimeter on the throttle/collective the MAP shoots up to 25" (there's nothing in between). Another thing I've noticed is that it seems like it's maxed out at the middle of the range (i.e. if I move the collective all the way to the top - mines on it's side to be more like an actual collective - then pushing the collective down increases MAP.

 

2. Whenever I do get it off the ground for a few seconds it rolls hard to the left and back. I've tried messing with various settings on the x and y axis knobs on the throttle, but nothing seems to help.

 

Any ideas or links to specific setup and config on the Saitek for the R22 in FS2004?

 

Thanks and any suggestions are appreciated.

 

Kelly

[devonaire]

Hello, All! First off, I'm a big believer in sim training - especially for IFR procedures. I was able to take a "bye" (didn't have to do it) on a sim ride for a flying job because the guy who was supposed to check me out was also an instructor at a local Community College and had seen me fly the sims there. He took one look at me and said: "You don't have to do this, do you?". Of course, I said no....

 

THAT was fixed-wing.

 

When I decided to go rotary, I spent some time at HoverControl.com for information. They have a lot of it, but some of the gold was hard to mine. Here are the the things that popped up:

 

1) FSX (MS Flight Sim X) does not really recognize a collective/throttle combination. You can tie the collective to prop pitch, but you run into problems with low rpm situations leading to engine failures.

 

2) None of the aircraft in MSX reflect the need to add pedal when you add/take off power. Dodosim supposedly does, but is currently only working with FS9 (FS 2004). They are working on a model for FSX.

 

3) Despite this, using the combination of a sim 'pit from simcontroller.com and FSX, I was able to hover a FH-1100 in my first lesson and will continure to use the sim throughout training because it's cheaper to fly, fun and excellent practice.

 

I've never quite understood the reluctance of some instructors to use simulators. I know it's boring to watch someone else, but that's no excuse to short-change a student.

 

Probably forgot to mention that I'm a fixed-wing CFI/II/MEI.......

 

Dev