Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted

OK, based on a lively post regarding rotor to FW certs, I decided to throw out a couple FAR's that are either misunderstood, don't really exist or are just plain strange.

 

So here goes. Comment at will..this is in the flight training section as it is designed to get students to open a book !

 

1.All aircraft used for instruction have to have an ELT, correct?

 

2. I'm taxiing my plane from the fuel pit back to my hangar. I crash into the hangar, crumpling a wingtip, of course I have to call and report this to the NTSB, right ?

 

3. We have all read the test question which states that helicopters should avoid the flow of fixed wing traffic, right? Where in the FAR does it state that rule for Class A,B,C or E airspace?

 

4. You cannot act as a crewmember or PIC on an aircraft if you have alcohol in your blood, right ?

 

5. I have to log every flight in my logbook, right ?

 

6. I need to have a second class medical before I can take the commercial practical test, right ?

 

7. Instead of getting my helicopter flight review, I could just go get my glider rating...that counts, right ?

 

8. In order to log time as cross country, I have to fly and land at an airport at least 25 miles away...right ?

 

9. and finally for Robbie pilots- I can learn to fly on the 44 and use that time to meet the SFAR requirements to stay current in a 22.

 

and oh so many more.........................

Posted
8. In order to log time as cross country, I have to fly and land at an airport at least 25 miles away...right ?

 

Yeah, but this one cost me an hour sorting thru my logbook for flights that count towards my commercial and ones that don't (61.1.b.v).

Posted
Yeah, but this one cost me an hour sorting thru my logbook for flights that count towards my commercial and ones that don't (61.1.b.v).

 

Only for X-C flights being applied towards certificate requirements.

Posted

Great post Goldy!

 

Also, isn't there an exception for pilots learning to fly at an Island that doesn't have any airports to fly to that are 25nm away or more? (I don't have my FAR's with me and I never really memorized this part because it doesn't apply to me)

Posted

Goldy, you are so right in subtlely suggesting that the FAR is not an easy read. If it states airplane ignore it? 91.155 has a lovely basic VFR weather chart, but you have to read around to pc together any 3 miles and 1000' references to controlled air space. What about 91.155 (B) (1) Heli clear of clouds rule. FAR leaves off flight visibility and comments only on clear of clouds. Guess that means, by omission, that there isn't any min flight visiblity (or it could mean that the flight visibilty is as per the chart and only the clear of clouds rule is different?). That said, I really would not want the task of writing that thing.

Posted (edited)
OK, based on a lively post regarding rotor to FW certs, I decided to throw out a couple FAR's that are either misunderstood, don't really exist or are just plain strange.

 

So here goes. Comment at will..this is in the flight training section as it is designed to get students to open a book !

 

1.All aircraft used for instruction have to have an ELT, correct?

 

2. I'm taxiing my plane from the fuel pit back to my hangar. I crash into the hangar, crumpling a wingtip, of course I have to call and report this to the NTSB, right ?

 

3. We have all read the test question which states that helicopters should avoid the flow of fixed wing traffic, right? Where in the FAR does it state that rule for Class A,B,C or E airspace?

 

4. You cannot act as a crewmember or PIC on an aircraft if you have alcohol in your blood, right ?

 

5. I have to log every flight in my logbook, right ?

 

6. I need to have a second class medical before I can take the commercial practical test, right ?

 

7. Instead of getting my helicopter flight review, I could just go get my glider rating...that counts, right ?

 

8. In order to log time as cross country, I have to fly and land at an airport at least 25 miles away...right ?

 

9. and finally for Robbie pilots- I can learn to fly on the 44 and use that time to meet the SFAR requirements to stay current in a 22.

 

and oh so many more.........................

 

All right, I just woke up, and am on a pretty good dose of Vicodin after knee surgery yesterday, but I'm going to take a quick stab at these . . .

 

1. No. An ELT is not required in all training aircraft,

2. No.

3. Not sure. Airspace is kinda fuzzy right now, pretty much the same way my mouth feels after the anesthesia (sp?).

4. Yes, you can. According the FAR, it has to be less than .04% though, and at least 8 hours since the last drink.

As for any comments on this subject, let's just not go there.

5. No. You do not have to have your logbook with you on all flights, unless you operating a light sport a/c under light sport rules.

6. No. But you do have to have a 2nd when acting as a commercial pilot.

7. Yes. When taking instruction for a rating it counts.

8. Hmmmm. Not sure. I will be reading the FAR's as soon as my eyes will focus, and making sure I have a clear understanding of this.

9. No. It works the other way though. 25 hours of the 22 time will count towards the 44.

Edited by Helo-Pilot
Posted
All right, I just woke up, and am on a pretty good dose of Vicodin after knee surgery yesterday, but I'm going to take a quick stab at these . . .

 

1. No. An ELT is not required in all training aircraft,

2. No.

3. Not sure. Airspace is kinda fuzzy right now, pretty much the same way my mouth feels after the anesthesia (sp?).

4. Yes, you can. According the FAR, it has to be less than .04% though, and at least 8 hours since the last drink.

As for any comments on this subject, let's just not go there.

5. No. You do not have to have your logbook with you on all flights, unless you operating a light sport a/c under light sport rules.

6. No. But you do have to have a 2nd when acting as a commercial pilot.

7. Yes. When taking instruction for a rating it counts.

8. Hmmmm. Not sure. I will be reading the FAR's as soon as my eyes will focus, and making sure I have a clear understanding of this.

9. No. It works the other way though. 25 hours of the 22 time will count towards the 44.

 

Damn, for a drugged up Texan you did pretty good !

Read question 5 again, and 3 is pretty interesting...

Posted (edited)
8. In order to log time as cross country, I have to fly and land at an airport at least 25 miles away...right ?

 

 

I'm early in my training but I was under the impression that you do NOT have to land specificly at an airport to log XC, you can make a landing anywhere that is 25nm away.

Edited by DieselBoy
Posted
I'm early in my training but I was under the impression that you do NOT have to land specificly at an airport to log XC, you can make a landing anywhere that is 25nm away.

 

 

Ok, since you're early on...I want to make sure you understand the subtle differences in the FAR's. Cross country time is "ANYTIME that you have a landing other than the point of departure AND you use dead reckoning, radio aids, or nav systems to get you there ' See FAR 61.1 3 for the details. So this means that if I track a VOR to get from one place to another, even if its 1 mile away, it meets the definition of cross country time.

 

HOWEVER<

 

For the purposes of meeting the FAR requirements to get your pilot certificate, they ADD a requirement of a straight line distance of 25NM..

 

It's important that you understand the difference between when you can log CC time vs when you log it for the purposes of getting your ticket.....most people don't know the difference.

 

Have fun training,

 

Goldy

Posted (edited)
I'm early in my training but I was under the impression that you do NOT have to land specificly at an airport to log XC, you can make a landing anywhere that is 25nm away.

 

 

Ah, the wonderful thing about flying helicopters is that we can land where airplanes can't. I have done many off airport landings in which I would log the flight as XC. 90% of my landings are not at an airport. As Goldy already pointed out, you can log XC even if it is less than 25nm stright line distance. I have two sections in my log book. One where I list XC more than 25nm and another where I list XC that was less than 25nm.

 

Great thread!!

 

JD

Edited by JDHelicopterPilot
Posted

Good questions! Most were already answered, but I going to go a little deeper on a few.

 

 

OK, based on a lively post regarding rotor to FW certs, I decided to throw out a couple FAR's that are either misunderstood, don't really exist or are just plain strange.

 

So here goes. Comment at will..this is in the flight training section as it is designed to get students to open a book !

 

1.All aircraft used for instruction have to have an ELT, correct? No, not required for helicopters (or for airplanes that stay within a certain number miles from an airport.) But if you do have one installed it has to be working.

 

2. I'm taxiing my plane from the fuel pit back to my hangar. I crash into the hangar, crumpling a wingtip, of course I have to call and report this to the NTSB, right ? No.....not the NTSB unless you did some major damage. But if you were to crash it into a hangar within an "intended for flight" segment, you might have to report it as an INCIDENT. Remember, anytime you pull pitch in a helicopter, with the intention of flight, its flying--so you have to be a rated pilot, a/c has to be in annual, etc.

 

3. We have all read the test question which states that helicopters should avoid the flow of fixed wing traffic, right? Where in the FAR does it state that rule for Class A,B,C or E airspace? It doesn't, and it's not so much airspace related.......but for towered and nontowered airports. VFR cruising altitudes are the same, IFR holds in the published directions, etc all stays the same. But at non-towered airports, helicopters avoid the flow of fixed wing traffic by flying the opposite traffic pattern (usually right traffic, rather than left.) But as long as you're at a different altitude and direction than the flow of the airplanes, you're fine. And if no airplanes, do whatever you want. At towered airports, do what the tower tells you.

 

4. You cannot act as a crewmember or PIC on an aircraft if you have alcohol in your blood, right ? As stated, you can, as long as it's below .04% and been 8 hrs since.

 

5. I have to log every flight in my logbook, right ? No, you only have to log flights that your are using toward earning a rating, landings to meet currency requirements, flight reviews, and instrument comp checks. CFIs must retain student records for 3 yrs. Also, a "log book" can be in any form--from a cocktail napkin to a engraved piece of granite--as long as it shows the date, a/c, location, number of landings & duration.

 

6. I need to have a second class medical before I can take the commercial practical test, right ? No, you only need a current third class medical to take a practical test. But you will need a first or second class to act as a commercial PIC. Keep in mind, you don't need a current medical to instruct as long as the person next to you can legally act as PIC with a passenger.

 

7. Instead of getting my helicopter flight review, I could just go get my glider rating...that counts, right ? Any checkride or flight review in any cat/class will satisfy the flight review requirement. EXCEPT for the R22 & R44......you must take a flight review in each every 24 months to act as PIC in each.

 

8. In order to log time as cross country, I have to fly and land at an airport at least 25 miles away...right ? In a helicopter, anytime you land somewhere that you didn't take off from, and you used some sort of navigation to get there, it's a x/c. However, for the logging it toward commercial, instrument, or your ATP "total x/c", it's had to have been further than 25nm. I don't log anything under 25 miles as x/c.

 

9. and finally for Robbie pilots- I can learn to fly on the 44 and use that time to meet the SFAR requirements to stay current in a 22. Nope, the other way around though. You can use half you R22 time toward the R44 totals.

Posted (edited)
Good questions! Most were already answered, but I going to go a little deeper on a few.

 

 

DeLorean, great answers. I listed a lot of FAR's that I often hear misquoted or misunderstood. The XC is one great example where many pilots don't really know what the rules say !! Including CFI's.

 

Great job....

 

#7 is that 24 or 12 months?

 

Now, the next big list of misunderstandings has to do with when is it night ??? I have flown several times where its so dark I couldnt find the airport without a beacon, and yet, its logged as day flight ? What the heck !! I thought it was a half hour after sunset ?? or is it a half hour before sunset?

 

( If you're stumped, check this out first:)

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneDay.php

 

Goldy

Edited by Goldy
Posted

For SFAR 73, it's still a "flight review" every 24 calendar months. If you have less than 200 hrs of helicopter time with less than 50 hrs in the R22 & R44 seperately, you need to take the SFAR 73 awareness flight every 12 calendar months which covers ONLY enhanced autos, gov. off, low-g, etc with no minimum time limit. Flight review has to be at least 1-hr or flight and 1-hr of ground training to count (no ground req'd for current CFIs).

 

For night......

 

For nav lights on, SUNRISE to SUNSET is night.

 

For carrying passengers when out of night currency, ONE HOUR AFTER SUNSET to ONE HOUR BEFORE SUNRISE is night.

 

For logging night time, CIVIL TWILIGHT is night. Civil Twilight is roughly 30 minutes after sunset / before sunrise when the sun is 5 degrees (EDIT: 6 degrees, not 5) below the horizon making it actually dark outside. The FARs say "as published by the Air Almanac"--which hasn't been published in 30-40 yrs I believe. [There's some sort of Maratime Twilight as well where the sun is about 10 degrees below the horizon]

 

So, the funny thing is that you can log night time with passengers while you're out of night currency. If sunset is at 1900, you turn your nav lights on then, ~30 minutes later civil twilight begins and you start to log night time, and as long as you land before 1959 you're still legal. Logged .4 at night with pax out of night currency. Wierd, huh?

 

As far as the beacon goes, it's sunset to sunrise, but more like when the operator flips the switch. At our airport, it's an electronic eye. Has nothing to do with the actual times. Typically, most control towers will flip it on whenever the field goes IFR.....not a rule though.

 

Here's the calculator for getting Sunset/Sunrise, Civil Twilight, and Moonset/Moonrise:

 

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneYear.php

 

Airnav.com also lists all these times for each airport.

Posted

Damn, what a great response. I thought it was when the center of the mass of the sun was 6 degrees below horizon but I aint arguing....I just check the website for the right time.

 

Great details, now if we could just get every student to read this, they could really impress the DPE !

 

Goldy

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...