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Co-Ownership


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#1 LJS1993

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Posted 10 April 2018 - 22:47

Hey gentlemen how many of you are co-owners of a helicopter?  I know this is somewhat common with airplane ownership but does it occur often with helicopters?  Considering the cost of a helicopter co-ownership or partnerships would seem ideal.



#2 chris pochari

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 01:03

It's very common in the fixed wing community, Richard Santulli invented the concept (Netjets), it became a big industry, especially for corporate aircraft. Heliflight pioneered the same type of model in the rotorcraft world although co ownership or "fractional ownership" appears to be more common in the fixed world, not sure why. Most companies, especially aviation companies, probably don't always have one person owning 100% of the shares of the company, so technically it's "co owned". Like law firms it's quite common to have two partners owning a 50% share, I imagine some aviation companies are also structured this way.


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#3 overtorque

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 01:39

What I see extremely common is leased aircraft, especially Robinsons. You look up the tail number of most flight school helicopters and you will see it belongs to Spitzer leasing or Emerald City etc. I think the lessees pay around $150/hr for the birds without gas and maintenance.


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#4 LJS1993

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 12:30

Why don't you see partnerships/co-ownership's that much in helicopters?  For instance what if Butters and I decide we want to both go halves on owning a Bell 206?  That would make ownership of said aircraft much more reasonable.  Have any of you guys on this message board thought of doing this with each other?  


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#5 chris pochari

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 13:04

Why don't you see partnerships/co-ownership's that much in helicopters?  For instance what if Butters and I decide we want to both go halves on owning a Bell 206?  That would make ownership of said aircraft much more reasonable.  Have any of you guys on this message board thought of doing this with each other?  

I'm looking to buy an as350 or bell 206l3 eventually, most likely far off in the future but if you're interested let me know. 


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#6 r22butters

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 13:55

Why don't you see partnerships/co-ownership's that much in helicopters?  For instance what if Butters and I decide we want to both go halves on owning a Bell 206?  That would make ownership of said aircraft much more reasonable.  Have any of you guys on this message board thought of doing this with each other?

Well personally I ain't got that kind of dough. As it is I can barely afford to rent a 22 for one measly hour every four to six weeks.

Even if I could afford a co-ownership I'd always be worried about those, bound to happen, unexpected maintenance issues that could cause one of us to have to bail, leaving the other screwed!

Plus a 206 is waaaay too much aircraft for my flying needs, so it would have to be out there earning some money on the side for me to even consider it.

Realistically the only way I would ever own a helicopter is if I were rich,...and I mean Tiger Woods rich!

,...and even then it would just be a little 22, 'cause anything bigger could easily turn into a money pit, then I'm back to Tin Cup Roy, driving range pro living in a trailer. :(
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#7 RisePilot

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 14:29

We have a few helicopter groups in the UK; they can and do work albeit are far less prevalent than fixed-wing groups.

 

Set up a company that owns the helicopter, everyone pays an amount to join and an on-ongoing monthly amount.  Let a school use it for some training/tours for extra income into the "kitty" and it can work well - structure it to break even with a buffer and you can fly for running costs.


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#8 LJS1993

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 11:17

We have a few helicopter groups in the UK; they can and do work albeit are far less prevalent than fixed-wing groups.

 

Set up a company that owns the helicopter, everyone pays an amount to join and an on-ongoing monthly amount.  Let a school use it for some training/tours for extra income into the "kitty" and it can work well - structure it to break even with a buffer and you can fly for running costs.

Right on!!  It's interesting because you can do a basic search for flying clubs/groups for fixed wing here in California and you get plenty of hits.  Do the same for helicopters and you get nothing.  I think it would be cool to find five like minded, for the most part, friends and go in on a helicopter to use for recreation.  Okay maybe a Bell 206 is crazy in terms of cost.  How about an Enstrom/Robinson or something of that sort.  



#9 Eric Hunt

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 15:38

Be prepared for some scary insurance costs...

 

And if one of the owners has a little whoopsie, do you all have to pay the maintenance and/or insurance excess?



#10 LJS1993

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 15:45

Be prepared for some scary insurance costs...

 

And if one of the owners has a little whoopsie, do you all have to pay the maintenance and/or insurance excess?

 

What if the whoopsie is a fatality?!?!



#11 chris pochari

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 16:36

 

What if the whoopsie is a fatality?!?!

Liability insurance isn't that expensive, Hull insurance is 2-4%, why not just self insure? Unless your helicopter is worth a lot it probably isn't worth it. And the bell 206 operating cost is not "crazy" high, maintenance and overhaul should be around $250/hr, fuel burn is 25-30gph. C20s are not that expensive to overhaul, and the Bell components are abundant. 


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#12 LJS1993

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 10:20

Liability insurance isn't that expensive, Hull insurance is 2-4%, why not just self insure? Unless your helicopter is worth a lot it probably isn't worth it. And the bell 206 operating cost is not "crazy" high, maintenance and overhaul should be around $250/hr, fuel burn is 25-30gph. C20s are not that expensive to overhaul, and the Bell components are abundant. 

 

Very interesting......................


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#13 MLH

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 11:22

With the 206 be aware of TT strap 3 year calendar life. $4500 a set plus labor.

 

https://www.ainonlin...ps-bell-rangers

 

Mike



#14 chris pochari

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 21:34

 

Very interesting......................

Don't quote me on the $250 an hour figure for overhaul/maintenance, the 407 runs around $350 an hour for overhaul/maintenance, 206B should be a lot less.



#15 overtorque

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 01:06

Liability insurance isn't that expensive, Hull insurance is 2-4%, why not just self insure? Unless your helicopter is worth a lot it probably isn't worth it. And the bell 206 operating cost is not "crazy" high, maintenance and overhaul should be around $250/hr, fuel burn is 25-30gph. C20s are not that expensive to overhaul, and the Bell components are abundant. 

 

I can't help but love that little turbine. It's small and lightweight, comes apart faster than a Lycoming, as if it's designed to be very easily maintained.


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#16 chris pochari

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 02:04

 

I can't help but love that little turbine. It's small and lightweight, comes apart faster than a Lycoming, as if it's designed to be very easily maintained.

Yes Turbine engines are superior by almost every metric you use, but cost is prohibitive.






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