Getting a loan

[kygreen229]

anyone know if wells fargo does a private loan like sallie maes? or is what they offer just in conjuction with college courses? i havent heard a clear answer so i thought id ask:)

[Sparker]

anyone know if wells fargo does a private loan like sallie maes? or is what they offer just in conjuction with college courses? i havent heard a clear answer so i thought id ask:)

 

They do both. Any bank will do private loans. They also have something called "Collegiate Loans" or something similar. Either way they need a co-signer, and as Fry and God say "The borrower is slave to the lender". It is easy to get in over your head.

[kygreen229]

They do both. Any bank will do private loans. They also have something called "Collegiate Loans" or something similar. Either way they need a co-signer, and as Fry and God say "The borrower is slave to the lender". It is easy to get in over your head.

 

Ya I know any bank does a private based loan but was just curious if they were like a career trainging loan like sallie maes or if there was really any difference there? well looks like ill be sticking with federal funding for the most part in conjunction with UVU. Seems to be the only logical way to go in my position with not having a cosigner right now.

 

-Kyle

[Sparker]

Ya I know any bank does a private based loan but was just curious if they were like a career trainging loan like sallie maes or if there was really any difference there? well looks like ill be sticking with federal funding for the most part in conjunction with UVU. Seems to be the only logical way to go in my position with not having a cosigner right now.

 

-Kyle

 

You get no benefit with using UVU. The reason so many people have in the past is that you got college credits for work you are already doing at your flight school. Enroll in any local college and you will have the same benefits plus a better education and face-to-face classes. I am enrolled at UVU and to be honest, most of their classes are a joke. I am still in the sophomore range classes, but for the most part they are not very challenging, I already have three of my classes finished for the spring semester (Due at the end of April). I am going to finish with UVU because I am half way done and I enrolled early enough and will get credit for my ratings. Otherwise any other school can give you alternative loans in addition to standard loans which you can use on whatever you want...

 

Aside from the mortgage industry, banks have a good track record at assessing risk and understanding money. That is why they have a lot of it. If they think they have a good chance at getting paid back, they will give you a loan. If they deny you it is because you will not be able to pay it back. In other words, if you are being denied you should take some time to think about why. Loans are a product banks sell. They have marketed these products so well that people beg for them. They only deny people they strongly believe won't be able to repay them.

 

Here is what I would suggest: go to school, work part time and save up as much as you can. Get on a budget and spend specified amounts of money on food, rent, etc until you have enough saved up for your private rating. This would be like having a down payment on a house. Once you get your private, then pursue your final ratings and consider debt for it.

 

There are a lot of kids that come through the flight school and don't even make it through the ground class. What if you borrow this money and find out it is too hard or you don't get it or you don't like it? These are questions that need to be answered before you get in over your head, and the only way to answer them is to do it.

 

I have been working hard to avoid as much debt as I can and it has taken me two years to get to where I am now, I just finished my private and it was way harder than I thought. I was really close to giving up because I hit a wall in my training... what if I had a $50-70k loan on my shoulders keeping me up at night while I was already stressed out?

 

That's my lecture, I sincerely hope it helps you.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Sparker

[kygreen229]

You get no benefit with using UVU. The reason so many people have in the past is that you got college credits for work you are already doing at your flight school. Enroll in any local college and you will have the same benefits plus a better education and face-to-face classes. I am enrolled at UVU and to be honest, most of their classes are a joke. I am still in the sophomore range classes, but for the most part they are not very challenging, I already have three of my classes finished for the spring semester (Due at the end of April). I am going to finish with UVU because I am half way done and I enrolled early enough and will get credit for my ratings. Otherwise any other school can give you alternative loans in addition to standard loans which you can use on whatever you want...

 

Aside from the mortgage industry, banks have a good track record at assessing risk and understanding money. That is why they have a lot of it. If they think they have a good chance at getting paid back, they will give you a loan. If they deny you it is because you will not be able to pay it back. In other words, if you are being denied you should take some time to think about why. Loans are a product banks sell. They have marketed these products so well that people beg for them. They only deny people they strongly believe won't be able to repay them.

 

Here is what I would suggest: go to school, work part time and save up as much as you can. Get on a budget and spend specified amounts of money on food, rent, etc until you have enough saved up for your private rating. This would be like having a down payment on a house. Once you get your private, then pursue your final ratings and consider debt for it.

 

There are a lot of kids that come through the flight school and don't even make it through the ground class. What if you borrow this money and find out it is too hard or you don't get it or you don't like it? These are questions that need to be answered before you get in over your head, and the only way to answer them is to do it.

 

I have been working hard to avoid as much debt as I can and it has taken me two years to get to where I am now, I just finished my private and it was way harder than I thought. I was really close to giving up because I hit a wall in my training... what if I had a $50-70k loan on my shoulders keeping me up at night while I was already stressed out?

 

That's my lecture, I sincerely hope it helps you.

 

Well I cant say it discourages me persay but I do appreciate the good, honest advice. Currently i have about 23 credits that transferred to UVU from my previous college(Boise State). I have been working full time for about 3 years basically stuck and trying to figure out how I could persue this. Being 21 now and having a good credit history till now, with a car loan and cell phone and such I have been trying to persue it as hard as I could but obviously dont want to get stupid about it and get in a bunch of debt. I have decided that I want to sell my truck and not have a car payment(just get a beater that runs) and basically have only the basic bills. I do agree that waiting and saving money would be the BEST way to go finacially wise in the case of not liking it or being to difficult. However at the same time in this industry and the time it takes to build hours I also think it is best to start as young as possible to have time to pay off any debt and make it worth it as a career...I guess its a toss up. Its somewhat of a shot in the dark but I could possibly be getting some help from my Mom here in the near future IF she sells some property she has. Ive been planning on working basically full time still and doing classes online and flying a few times a week. How is doing all of school online?? time consuming? harder? or just not worth it? as it is right now im all signed up and pretty much ready to go starting may 5th... AHHHHH! haha. thanks for the help and advice.

 

-Kyle

[Sparker]

How is doing all of school online?? time consuming? harder? or just not worth it?

 

The aviation based courses are too easy, aside from the few that are based on essay writing, where you are required to learn...

 

The gen-ed courses are way harder, at least for me. I just took algebra and barely passed it. Have you ever tried to learn math by just reading? It's tough. I think I would have done much better watching some lectures and having students to study with in the same class.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Sparker

[kygreen229]

The aviation based courses are too easy, aside from the few that are based on essay writing, where you are required to learn...

 

The gen-ed courses are way harder, at least for me. I just took algebra and barely passed it. Have you ever tried to learn math by just reading? It's tough. I think I would have done much better watching some lectures and having students to study with in the same class.

 

Ya math is my hardest subject. I took pre calc here at boise state twice and failed it. im fine with the basics it just takes me alot longer to learn math and take it in. always been a C student in math for the most part. Well I have some time till May so will see what happens!

 

-Kyle

[heligirl03]

I just talked to a friend last night has been doing UVU, working full time and flying. They stopped flying this winter with less than 20hrs because it was all too much and everything was getting such a fraction of the attention required that nothing was amounting to anything! I realize life doesn't always allow us to do what we WANT, and this is just an IDEA, but if the ultimate objective is flying and you are set on loans anyway, why not focus on getting your ratings and pursue the degree while you are teaching, etc? More desk time is wasted in aviation than can possibly be counted, and more than we want as pilots!! Build time and get your degree concurrently?? That's the scenario my friend is considering now. This also assumes you can get loans to train independently from coursework, I know that's a long shot. Anyway, a thought.

 

Of course the best option is work your butt off for a few years, save the cash, do it all at once and have no debt!!! You can get your degree online as a HEMS pilot on call at the base 14hrs a day

 

Good luck!

[kygreen229]

Ya I have been worried that working full time, doing school and getting out to fly and ground school will be to much. When you guys say save for a few years and fly with no debt...what kind of job are you working at?? Im makin 9.50hr and would take me 10 years to save almost enough to go to heli school. Are you just talking about your private rating then loans from there? And also ya the main reason I was going to UVU was to be able to get the funding to fly because as of right now I do not have a cosigner. Im becoming more and more demotivated:( I guess its just the facts of life!

 

-Kyle

[heliav8t]

kyle- i am also a young aspiring pilot. I have visited hillsboro on a couple of occasions and am very impressed with there operation. I dont know if you have ordered there dvd yet (or you can watch the series on there website) but it will really let you know what its like. At first i figured they were just good at advertising and could talk the talk. But when i went down there i realized just how organized it was, and professional . Wayne Moore the admissions director is awesome to work with and he is full of information. PCC down there has an aviation science degree(2 yr) also and if you enroll there you can get financial aid and since you can get collegiate loans easier through wells fargo that helps also if you show them you are taking a degree program as well. I was told that if you can pay for your private with your own money or put it on a credit card or anything like that, wells fargo is more likely to lend you money for your instrument and commercial rating because they see just how serious you really are. i hope this helps. if you have any further questions and dont want to just discuss this on here you can call me at 509-254-1407.

[Spirit of '69]

i'm at a place where i would like to get loans, because i'm a better learner and it would get me in the door quicker if i could go full time. (besides i'm impatient!) but the loans just aren't there that i know of. i may do pilot finance towards the tail end of my training, to speed up the process. i'm hoping new funding sources will open up but that won't stop me from starting training.

 

there are pros and cons with the pay as u go method, less efficient knowledge retention, and we're talking 2 and a half years of training to get to cfii. (1hr per week) but when i'm done there is no debt for when i'm a poor cfi!

[kygreen229]

pay as you go would take a while but no debt is awesome!! on my salaray at 21 pay as you wouldnt really be feasable i dont think. ya hopefully the economy pulls through and more banks will be able to provide finacning.

[yzchopper]

Pay as you go can be very beneficial with no debt, but it can have disadvantages too. The main one has already been mentioned "(1hr per week)". This is not good because you end up having to relearn about 10-25% of what you did on the last flight. This in turn means you will spend 10-25% more money. I recommended to my students and to future students to save that 1hr/wk amount until you have enough to fly 1hr flights at least 3 times a week for a minimum of 2 weeks and then you can fly the regular schedule of 1hr/wk. I say to do it this way because after six 1hr flights you have a lot better understanding of flying the helicopter and it means you will not be relearning but advancing making your training a lot more cost effective. There is always relearning of specific procedures and maneuvers but it is closer to 1-5% than to the original 10-25%. Hope this helps and good luck.

 

Steve

[bossman]

It all depends on your point of view...twenty-something looking forward or fifty-something looking back. I'm certain you also can't imagine what it would be like to be 50-plus and not knowing if you will be able to keep working...for whatever reason...and to also not have the resources to stop working. But someday you will. That doesn't mean you should plan your life so conservatively that all you think about is your retirement. But...it also means you should not take long-shot chances when you are young just because you think you have plenty of time.

 

You would be amazed at how much liberty...freedom of action...you lose because you have to make payments to a bank every month. But that is what young people do all the time...trade their freedom in order to buy something they don't really need.

 

If you want to experience the "dream of flight" do it in a Cessna. Everything you want from flying...at least initally...can be gotten inexpensively by learning to fly and then renting a Cessna from a Part 61 flying club. If after you finish college, have been flying a Cessna all over the county and have an IFR rating you still want a job flying helicopters you'll know how to get that training a whole lot cheaper than you do now.

fry,

You are such a ray of sunshine. Do not listen to fry. You go ahead and pursue your dream while you are young. Do not wait till you are old and look back and say "what if". Long-shot chances are what this country was built upon. You'll be making payments to a bank for something, it might as well be for what you want. I say "GO FOR IT".

[kygreen229]

thanks for the advice yzchopper! sounds like a pretty good way to go. to get started. I am planning on paying for as much as i can out of my pocket.

 

And Bossman thanks I appreciate it!! I know fry's point but at the same time I cant sit around and not persue it. its all I want to do for a career!

 

-Kyle

[Spirit of '69]

good tips yz. sounds like i can have my cake and eat it too! i take my intro flight today, so, woo hoo! i was thinking of waiting a year to save for the 2 flights/per week, but i may have to reconsider...

[Kimbo]

Kyle

I am 20 years old and i am currently enrolled in UVU. I am going to start my flight training this spring. I agree with Sparker when he/she says that the aviation classes are too easy. They are kind of a joke. The gen ed classes are more challenging, but if you put your mind to it, you shouldn't have a problem. I plan on working a part time job, doing my online classes, and training all at the same time. Its going to be tough, but anything worth doing isn't easy. Like you, I have found getting loans to be a royal pain in the a**.

 

I made the hardest decision of my life thus far, when I decided to turn down going to a traditional college, and instead, pursue flying. I worked the past 2 years to save up money to support me while I'm at the flight school (it is six hours from where i currently live, so I am getting an apartment near the school). I knew that I would not be happy until I was flying, I am absolutely dead set on this career path and nothing anyone says will convince me otherwise. It is my responsibility and I will have to deal with the consequences if my decision puts me in a cardboard box begging for change . I say go for it, because you wont want to ask yourself in 30 years "what if?".

[kygreen229]

Kyle

I am 20 years old and i am currently enrolled in UVU. I am going to start my flight training this spring. I agree with Sparker when he/she says that the aviation classes are too easy. They are kind of a joke. The gen ed classes are more challenging, but if you put your mind to it, you shouldn't have a problem. I plan on working a part time job, doing my online classes, and training all at the same time. Its going to be tough, but anything worth doing isn't easy. Like you, I have found getting loans to be a royal pain in the a**.

 

I made the hardest decision of my life thus far, when I decided to turn down going to a traditional college, and instead, pursue flying. I worked the past 2 years to save up money to support me while I'm at the flight school (it is six hours from where i currently live, so I am getting an apartment near the school). I knew that I would not be happy until I was flying, I am absolutely dead set on this career path and nothing anyone says will convince me otherwise. It is my responsibility and I will have to deal with the consequences if my decision puts me in a cardboard box begging for change . I say go for it, because you wont want to ask yourself in 30 years "what if?".

 

Kimbo,

 

Thats awesome especially if you have been saving for two years and been dedicated already then you will succeed. As we all know the economy is in the tank, but it just doesnt make sense to me to not follow your dream if you can do it. It will never be easy but thats what seperates people that kind of want it and really do in the end.

 

As long as you know that there is NO guarantee and you will have to live with your decision if it doesnt work out then thats all that you can do. Thats exactly what I'm doing and have to tell myself.

 

Im taking the advice that I heard that I think makes perfect sense....Go for it and get your private. When your done with that then revaluate, and look at where you are and where you want to be with it. That way if its not for you as a career you havent wasted 60 to 80,000 but you still can enjoy your private rating.

 

Financing is the worst!! Its so tuff. As of now I only have UVU to get started with. I have excellent credit and credit history but I am only 21 so that plays a factor. I dont currently have a cosigner as well so well see what happens down the road in a year or so...Untill then Im going to get started and go as far as I can.

[fry]

I have never understood all this "follow your dream" stuff. On the one hand everyone acknowledges how difficult and expensive it is to actually get to the point of earning a paycheck as a helo pilot yet, all these young folks think they have sufficient ambition...because they have "a dream"...to get there. The odds are long, the required motivation is great and...frankly...the payoff is relatively small for the effort required.

 

If someone has the motivation to spend $60 or $70k (double that if he borrows it), do the training and endure the CFI apprenticeship why is his "dream" limited to shuttling roughnecks around the coast of Louisiana? With that kind of drive why not "dream" of becoming a doctor, engineer, scientist, symphony conductor, astronaut, college professor, lawyer...president?

[yzchopper]

I have never understood all this "follow your dream" stuff. On the one hand everyone acknowledges how difficult and expensive it is to actually get to the point of earning a paycheck as a helo pilot yet, all these young folks think they have sufficient ambition...because they have "a dream"...to get there. The odds are long, the required motivation is great and...frankly...the payoff is relatively small for the effort required.

 

If someone has the motivation to spend $60 or $70k (double that if he borrows it), do the training and endure the CFI apprenticeship why is his "dream" limited to shuttling roughnecks around the coast of Louisiana? With that kind of drive why not "dream" of becoming a doctor, engineer, scientist, symphony conductor, astronaut, college professor, lawyer...president?

 

Because anyone can grow up and be one of those but not everyone can become a helicopter pilot!! Also the pay may be great for one of the above professions you mention but the pure satisfaction of flying in a helicopter and being a helicopter pilot is far more satisfying and being paid to fly is the icing on the cake (even though it might not be great and make you rich).

 

Steve

[kygreen229]

Fry,

 

I just have a question for you..Did you do helicopter training and things did not work out or something? It just seems like you almost despise being a heli pilot...

 

Being a doctor or any of the above things you mentioned is great pay and is satisfying for those that want to be those things in life. If you dont want to be a doctor, your heart isnt in it and you are just there for the money. Which in turn could or could not make you crappy at that profession because really you just dont want to be there except for the money motivation.

 

I WANT to be a helicopter pilot. Nobody is forcing me obviously. My heart is in it and Im not there for the great pay but just to hopefully make a living enjoying what I like to do. It doesnt gurantee that I will but thats why I joined this forum to find out more and get both sides of the story. I totally see where you're coming from but if everybody is like NAAAAAHHH thats to difficult to become one, or NAAAAHHH I just dont want to try that hard, then why do anything that you like to do if its just to tuff?

 

I dont know, Im 21 and definitely dont know everything. I have family in the aviation industry and have heard lots of things, but I've never heard dont try if its just to hard.

 

-Kyle

[Kimbo]

Fry,

 

Why do you fly?

 

A sincere question. I hope you give me a sincere answer.

[ADRidge]

Hasn't been the first time someone has asked to no avail, and it won't be the last.

[67november]

Fry is our overly optimistic the glass is over flowing forum member :D

 

so don't expect your sincere answer anytime soon.

Edited February 19, 2010 by 67november

[kygreen229]

K guys I really dont want this to get heated or any tension for any reason. My post was definitely not for that. There is always different opinions on peoples dreams or aspirations and I see what Fry is saying totally.

 

Im just curious what his story is and would like to learn from it. Is he flying helis right now? Or...

 

-Kyle