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TOWER "ASS CHEWIN"


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I landed my R44 as usual at the KAPA Heliplex after a day of flying. Went into the hangar and 30-minutes later a guy from the airport authority rushed into the Helicplex with my "N" number written on a sticky note.

 

He said: "Better call the tower immediately. They're pretty upset with you!"

 

So I called and the tower chief explained my "offense".

 

He wanted to know why I never radioed in my "Landing Assured" or my "Shutting Down" status.

 

I said, "Well we have seven choppers here at the Heliplex and none of us have ever done that before."

 

To which he responded: "You will from now on."

 

I see no problem with his reasoning: When a fixed wing lands, they can see it from the tower and they know where it is at all times because they hand it off to ground and ground directs it to parking.

 

Whereas helicopters are sometimes invisible to the tower -- as in this case at the Heliplex. And since we do not talk to ground, the tower has no idea if our flight terminated successfully or not.

 

My question: Has anyone else ever been chewed out for not radioing in your "Shut Down"?

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In fact just the opposite. My first flight out of KCMA I called ground first because I was in a run up area / transient parking area that is not visible from the tower. Ground told me to contact the tower....helicopters don't have to talk to ground.

 

So, ever since, I dont contact ground, I call the tower direct AFTER start up and rotors spinning and let them know my intentions...likewise we land in the transient area not visible to the tower. My last clearance is usually to land at my own discretion and do not overfly any aircraft.

 

Sounds like you got a new chief who came from an area that played by a different set of rules. Sounds like time for a meeting to get all onto the same page.

 

Goldy

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I landed my R44 as usual at the KAPA Heliplex after a day of flying. Went into the hangar and 30-minutes later a guy from the airport authority rushed into the Helicplex with my "N" number written on a sticky note.

 

He said: "Better call the tower immediately. They're pretty upset with you!"

 

So I called and the tower chief explained my "offense".

 

He wanted to know why I never radioed in my "Landing Assured" or my "Shutting Down" status.

 

I said, "Well we have seven choppers here at the Heliplex and none of us have ever done that before."

 

To which he responded: "You will from now on."

 

I see no problem with his reasoning: When a fixed wing lands, they can see it from the tower and they know where it is at all times because they hand it off to ground and ground directs it to parking.

 

Whereas helicopters are sometimes invisible to the tower -- as in this case at the Heliplex. And since we do not talk to ground, the tower has no idea if our flight terminated successfully or not.

 

My question: Has anyone else ever been chewed out for not radioing in your "Shut Down"?

That's pretty incredible. We land at our civic center helipad just southwest of John Wayne daily. We tell the tower of our intent to land at the civic center and that we will "report airborne". We usually get "landing will be at pilot's own risk" and the winds at the airport. There are occasions when the controller throws in "report landing assured". If they request it, I do. If they don't, I don't. I have never reported shut down, and have never been requested to do so. I would be interested in finding out whether there is any regulatory basis for that request. If there is, I can't find it.

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I agree with previous posters, that there has to be a new chief in town and a meeting to clear this up must take place. Like the others, I have always heard "ramp is in an uncontrolled area, proceed at own risk, use caution". I have also had attitude from controllers when I've tried to contact ground, but in KPUB, they started having helicopters contact ground. The only time I've heard tower want to hear "landing assured", was in KCOS and Vegas. The funny thing about Colorado Springs, after a few days of reporting "landing assured" or "down and clear", it became habit, then one day I did it and the controller said in a smart a** tone, "I know you've landed, I can see you from the tower." So to sum this up, it depends on the tower, the area, and who happens to working that day.

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All good stuff here so far,

 

i especially like the fact that no one is slamming the tower folks which i hear from time to time.. they are people doing their jobs just like us and it can be pretty overwhelming at times (especially for a new person). The best advice is to go to the tower on a semi regular basis and sit down with as many of the controllers as you can to talk about procedures.. this is very important for a few reasons.. First, you find out about issues that you wouldn't think about, like, at KBJC there is a spot looking out to the west from the tower that the helicopters (and smaller fixed wing at low level) almost disappear from sight for a second or two, it's one of the reasons they are building us a new tower. There are also places on the ground where a helo is in plain sight, but if it turns a certain way you just cannot see it, especially when the sun is just right (because our team now are all aware of this, and the spots in particular, we know to turn the helo while hovering so the tower can get a broad side view). Second, you meet the folks and they meet you, very important for you to KNOW who you are speaking with at times in the air. I came into the airspace one day when it was crazy busy and could tell the controller was frustrated (and understandably so), when i called in I ask how the day was and called her by name... you could tell it made her feel much better and everything improved immediately.. for everybody!

 

We meet with the tower manager at KBJC as often as we can, and in fact in the last meeting invited all of her team to Heli-Ops to discuss summer performance issues with helicopters in general.. there will be from three to four meetings at our offices to make sure all of them can make it and we'll have pizza and drinks. The more everyone talks the better it is for everyone. I would highly encourage you all to do this where ever you fly, and on a regular basis as things change and people come and go.

 

Now, to get to Tom's questions;

 

Because our ramp is behind our large hangar and at times we are out of sight completely for a few moments we do report "safe and secure". In fact, this procedure has morphed over the last few months as we have gotten much busier (my point about regular conversations, things change). We now report to ground upon pulling into a hover with our intentions to taxi out and down C2, they don't give us "clearance" per se as it's from a non movement area, but they acknowledge we are coming out of our area (this has made our ops much safer and more convenient for our neighbors which makes everyone happier, as they know we are coming and/or going). When we get out to C-C2 intersection we are already on ground, within sight of the controllers and then report our intentions. When we return to the ramp we always report "safe & secure"..

 

When we are departing direct from the ramp we call tower only and request "departure from our current position on the Heli-Ops ramp".. we do this from a hover and tell them that, "we are in a hover and are ready to go".. the reason we do this is so they know we are ready to depart and that we are safe... one day we had a visitor from another airport and he called for ramp departure, the pilot received clearance and then decided to back up for a longer run.. he was taking his time and the controller got a little worried about him and called back to see if he was ok.. then she said "from now on, when i tell you to go.. get outta town!!" :-)

 

The bottom line is.. SAFETY, and the fastest, easiest way to this goal is communication, and on a regular basis.. everyone wins.

 

dp

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Because most tower controlled airports have few helicopter ops, in many cases they are not familiar with the machines capabilities or requirements. More than once I have been cleared to land on a runway and then told to keep the speed up for faster following traffic. Usually a visit to the tower chief or the tower supervisor fixes that problem. One big thing to keep in mind, don't let the controller put you in a situation beyond yours or the machine capabilities. Where I am at, the tower cleared a helicopter to hover taxi down wind to a runway for a transition to another runway. The problem was the winds were 18 guts to 28 and just behind the helicopter during this maneuver was a pair of t hangers, so the wind coming up his tail was most likely 5 knots or more greater than the ATIS. And he ended up in a settling with power situation. Did the pilot screw up? Yes he did, but he had some help.

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Because most tower controlled airports have few helicopter ops, in many cases they are not familiar with the machines capabilities or requirements. More than once I have been cleared to land on a runway and then told to keep the speed up for faster following traffic. Usually a visit to the tower chief or the tower supervisor fixes that problem. One big thing to keep in mind, don't let the controller put you in a situation beyond yours or the machine capabilities. Where I am at, the tower cleared a helicopter to hover taxi down wind to a runway for a transition to another runway. The problem was the winds were 18 guts to 28 and just behind the helicopter during this maneuver was a pair of t hangers, so the wind coming up his tail was most likely 5 knots or more greater than the ATIS. And he ended up in a settling with power situation. Did the pilot screw up? Yes he did, but he had some help.

 

 

Really good point.. one of the reasons we are meeting with the tower to discuss performance issues, especially new controllers might not realize that a 300 has trouble hovering up here on a hot day.. :-)

 

sooo, don't be afraid to say "unable".. because you may be the only one that knows the complete situation..

 

dp

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IME, it's different at every airport. Some don't want you to contact ground, some do; some want you to call 'landing assured', some don't; You just have to learn the local rules and deal with them. If you're not familiar with the area, you have to do the best you can. It depends heavily on the amount of other traffic - if it's a very busy Class B, they don't usually want to hear much, but if it's a very quiet Class D, they may want more calls just to get their counts up. You have to be flexible, and accommodate any reasonable demands.

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I'd question whether or no he was actually right.

 

If you landed outside the non-movement zone you'd need to be under the control of the tower.

 

If you landed on the apron/ramp, i.e. inside the non movement area - the tower can't actually clear you to any spot - hence the "land at your own risk" clearance, that's all you'll ever get.

Edited by Mungo5
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I also fly out of KAPA heliplex and have never had such a issue, I'm a student and have not been taught to radio in my "Landing Assured" or my "Shutting Down" status. What has the feedback from AirCam or Mt. One been? Next time I see you I would like to know if anything else has come of it?

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I also fly out of KAPA heliplex and have never had such a issue, I'm a student and have not been taught to radio in my "Landing Assured" or my "Shutting Down" status. What has the feedback from AirCam or Mt. One been? Next time I see you I would like to know if anything else has come of it?

 

Nothing came from it except that the Tower expects to hear from us when we land and shut down.

 

I learned to fly at the Heliplex and also was never taught this procedure. In fact, no one at the Heliplex ever used this procedure.

 

But hey, who cares? It is a small thing to say: "Centennial Tower, Helicopter so-n-so, on the ground and shutting down."

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I'd question whether or no he was actually right.

 

If you landed outside the non-movement zone you'd need to be under the control of the tower.

 

If you landed on the apron/ramp, i.e. inside the non movement area - the tower can't actually clear you to any spot - hence the "land at your own risk" clearance, that's all you'll ever get.

 

 

Correctomungo!

 

Flying helo's in LA off and on since 1986, landed at 19 different airports in the area, and not a single one of them has ever asked me to call when safely landed. I wouldnt even know what to say if they asked. Just goes to show you how much easier it is flying with some local knowledge !

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I always report last three of tail# and say "Landed at (location) and shutting down have a great day" regardless if they ask. I let them know just so they will have one less thing to think or worry about. I agree 100% about talking to the controllers and tower employees in person. I like everyone to know about my aircraft and how it performs, what it can and cannot do and what I can and cannot do while flying or hovering. If you talk to them and explain they will understand and work with you. I like to land on taxiways or directly to the ramp if at all possible. It keeps me out of the way of the fixed-winged traffic.

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I didn't see anyone address the order that tower is guided by

 

ATC Order 7110

 

Specifically Chapter 11. You can also, obviously, reference the AIM, but it doesn't say anywhere about your reports of "landing assured" and any LOA that may exist doesn't apply to you if your company has not signed it. Now if they made a specific request of you to do so, and you acknowledged, then it would be expected that you replied as instructed. Otherwise, a meet and greet with the controller may put any discrepancy to bed. Playing nice would be to your advantage here, but you do not need to roll over just because a tower controller gets his panties in a bunch. I've pissed off more than my share, as they have of me. Sometimes you may even need to have them pull a tape to clarify. I have even gotten an apology based on that once. Ultimately, don't lose any sleep over it. Just chalk it up to your continued education.

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Play nice? Psh. I say next time it happens, you take off, hover in front of their window and scream at them about controller/pilot responsibilities. That will teach them.... I'm sure you will never be bitched at again about not reporting landing assured...

 

I didn't see anyone address the order that tower is guided by

 

ATC Order 7110

 

Specifically Chapter 11. You can also, obviously, reference the AIM, but it doesn't say anywhere about your reports of "landing assured" and any LOA that may exist doesn't apply to you if your company has not signed it. Now if they made a specific request of you to do so, and you acknowledged, then it would be expected that you replied as instructed. Otherwise, a meet and greet with the controller may put any discrepancy to bed. Playing nice would be to your advantage here, but you do not need to roll over just because a tower controller gets his panties in a bunch. I've pissed off more than my share, as they have of me. Sometimes you may even need to have them pull a tape to clarify. I have even gotten an apology based on that once. Ultimately, don't lose any sleep over it. Just chalk it up to your continued education.

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