SEL Add On ?

[Whistlerpilot]

Hopefully some one here is both a Helicopter and Airplane CFI and can answer this question.

 

I'm a Commercial Pilot - Rotorcraft Helicopter and a Glider Pilot. In my spare time (weather days) I've been taking some instruction in a PA-18 SuperCub. After 7 hours my CFI thinks I'm almost ready for the flight test. 320 Glider and 800 Helicopter hours had positive transfer I guess.

 

So now it's a formality of getting the minimum hours logged to do the test. The FAR's aren't very clear on this. Part 61.63 Additional aircraft ratings, makes sense. Part 61.109 Aeronautical experience (a) For an airplane single-engine rating, is fuzzy about adding on.

 

It's clear I have to do 10 hours solo in a single engine airplane (apparently a glider is not an airplane) with 5 hours x-country, etc... (i) (ii) (iii)

 

It says I need at least 40 hours of flight time that includes 20 hours of flight training from an instructor. It doesn't say that needs to be in an airplane. It does specify 3 hours dual x-country, 3 hours dual night, 3 hours dual instrument, and 3 hours practical test prep within 60 days of the test all in a single-engine airplane. This totals 12 SEL hours.

 

With the 10 SEL solo and 12 SEL dual am I good to go? I'm hoping for 22 hours.

 

Interested to hear how others interpret this reverse add-on.

 

PS I didn't try the airplane prank!

Edited August 10, 2010 by Whistlerpilot

[Mikemv]

WP, you or your CFI should contact the FAA Inspector or DPE that will test you for the rating and have them tell you what is acceptable. They will be the person looking thru your log books to verify everything. There will be no problems this way! Best to you, Mike

[Rotorhead8500]

I am taking my SEL ride today, and the DPE said all of the helicopter time would be credited! I hold a commercial Helicopter as well just not a glider! Ride is at 2 today, here goes nothing!

[ScottL]

I'd also check if you're doing commercial SEL, that whether or not you'd need complex time for the add-on. Not positive on how that works for going from Rotor/glider to Airplane ratings, I know that if you get MEL first in complex, you don't need complex for SEL.

[apiaguy]

here we go again...

this topic came up last year and the consensus on this forum is that we cannot agree what the far's are for an add-on.

I say you're good to go. Fill out the form for your dpe and if it passes you're golden.

[Whistlerpilot]

Hey Rotorhead 8500 good luck on the checkride. Let us know how it goes.

 

Spoke to the Anchorage FSDO and they confirmed my interpretation, except the 3 hours dual 60 days prior to the test can be part of the total, and here in Alaska the 61.110 exception for night flying elimanates the 3 hours night. Looks like I need 6 hours dual and 10 hours solo for a private airplane SEL add on to my commercial helicopter.

[IFLY]

Are you going to get your CFI glider too? I plan on adding it later this year so I can teach in everything I fly.

 

Jerry

[AIRWOLF4LIFE]

When I got my helicopter private addon, I had to have 40hrs of helicopter time. But the 10hr complex time is kind of a bummer for fixed wing when it comes to the commercial.

[IFLY]

Well at least you get to fly a nicer airplane for 10 hours.

 

Jerry

[Whistlerpilot]

Hey Jerry that's cool you will be able to instruct in everything. I have my Transport Canada glider instructor with aerobatics. Since I'm dual citizen it's been complicated harmonizing it all, but the Commercial Helicopter is good both sides. I only have the heli CFI in US because the TC system doesn't allow indepenant instruction and all the Canadian CFI jobs are locked down by very high timers.

 

For now I'm really focused on the helicopter flying. The weather here in Seward Alaska has been terrible this summer so taking the opportunity to learn to fly airplanes on the down days. I keep dreaming of a cheap ($100,000.) R22 but then notice C150's for under $15,000. Hard to beat that for cost per hour to be in the air.

 

The ultimate aircraft (besides helicopters... but someone has to pay me to fly them because I can't afford one) is a Ximangu or Stemme motorglider. 700 NM range at 110 kts 4gph, and you can shut off the engine and glide 30:1 once in the lift!

[Rotorhead8500]

Well IACRA messed up yet again, and said I need 20 more hrs then i actualy need, so I am now taking it on monday or tuesday! When the FAA introduced IACRA, they were STUPID!

[HeliUtah]

Well IACRA messed up yet again, and said I need 20 more hrs then i actualy need, so I am now taking it on monday or tuesday! When the FAA introduced IACRA, they were STUPID!

 

Let us know if/how this gets resolved ... I will probably be facing the same problem in a week or two.

[Rotorhead8500]

Well here is the deal from our FSDO. A recent change has added multiple thinngs you must do to get a SEL add on. Alot of night, simulated inst, and cross country. I am getting a detailed list faxed over and will try to post it once I have it. The local helicopter examiner with the faa (not DPE) said it is just another way for the faa to make our life hard! Always rember the FAA is just a pupet controlled by the rest of the government! Fly Safe everyone!

[IFLY]

The ultimate aircraft (besides helicopters... but someone has to pay me to fly them because I can't afford one) is a Ximangu or Stemme motorglider. 700 NM range at 110 kts 4gph, and you can shut off the engine and glide 30:1 once in the lift!

Too bad we live so far apart, I want buy a share of one of those too. Ximango flys pretty nice but I haven't been up in a Stemme yet.

 

Jerry

[Pohi]

I know this poor horse has been beaten way too much, but I was wondering your particular FSDO came up with?

 

I am not debating what I think it should be, just curious as to what your local people told you.

 

Thanks

[Whistlerpilot]

Well finally got it done. Passed the checkride today for SEL airplane private add on to my commercial helicopter.

 

Thanks Mikemv for your advice you were spot on. In the end it came down to what the local DPE and the Anchorage FSDO were satisfied with. Did the IACRA thing and it agreed with the numbers presented.

 

In the end it took me 26 hours but according to what I came up with it can be done in 22. It was complicated by the fact that I was flying a Super Cub with minimal instrumentation. My DPE made me do the instrument flying portion in a C-172 with instruments which meant I had to do 3 hour dual in the C-172 beforehand to qualify. So one checkride with two airplanes!

 

Besides some grilling on airplane aerodynamics the only other drama was on the simulated engine fire. He laughed and said you did your helicopter check list as I simulated shutting everything off and turned to land in the creek bed (Super Cub on tundra tires) which seemed a reasonable engine off distance away. I didn't think I could make the airport at best glide.

 

The helicopter time helped some. Glider helped the most. It seems unfair that you can get your glider in 3 hours with a private airplane, but with 320 glider hours it still takes 22 hour minimum to get the airplane. Really I'm not complaining because I've just been given a license to learn how to fly airplanes now.

 

Oh yeah, 61.109 spells out exactly what is required.

Edited September 11, 2010 by Whistlerpilot

[Mikemv]

Whistlerpilot,

 

First, congrats, well done.

 

Second, I am glad that I was able to help. My suggestion was common sense that would remove any questions and disappointment. So many pilots ask about regs and check rides on the internet when the DPE/FSDO that is testing always holds the acceptance and authority.

 

Again, Congrats, good job!

[IFLY]

Commercial or instrument next?

 

Jerry

[Whistlerpilot]

Commercial or instrument next?

 

Jerry

 

Definitely instrument next.