Landing on public land

[r44]

Hello,

 

I am wondering what the rules are regarding landing on public land (BLM, forest service, state of California, etc)?

 

I have a long time pilot (8000 hours) say its ok, but others (500-1000 hours)say no way. Can anyone provide me with the right answer?

 

Thanks

Jim

[Goldy]

Hello,

 

I am wondering what the rules are regarding landing on public land (BLM, forest service, state of California, etc)?

 

I have a long time pilot (8000 hours) say its ok, but others (500-1000 hours)say no way. Can anyone provide me with the right answer?

 

Thanks

Jim

 

You can land in the USFS if you have some purpose and follow their process. Here locally, it means you call into their dispatch center to alert them when in route, when you land and when you depart. Legitimate uses are supporting their leasees, which include cell phone or radio/TV maint.crews.

 

You can land in BLM land by getting the ranger permission. I guess what I am saying is just make a phone call and get their blessing. If you have some legit reason, you won't have an issue.

 

I'm sure there are plenty of times someone lands on BLM land without permission 1000 times and no one cares or sees them. The fact that they are not caught does not make it ok. I am anal about getting permission, as the consequences for me of even getting a ticket would be too great.

 

Some municipalities have specific rules against landing...like within LA City limits. They have had operators try it, and they have cited pilots for doing it. State of CA requires permits if landing within 1000 feet of any school, there are rules, but so far, most are reasonable. If you abuse privileges, we all lose them.

 

If you are in CA, here is a little known site:

http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/planning/aeronaut/index.html

 

This document will help you avoid trouble on state lands:

http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/planning/aeronaut/documents/EnforcementAeronautics.pdf

 

Like the vehicle code, most people have no idea what is illegal.

Edited November 30, 2010 by Goldy

[clay]

I flew in Grand Junction for a bit, and there was a bunch of BLM land just to the north of the airport. We wanted it to use it for off airport landing and training, but we were told that we could not use it if we were making money, or were conducting business utilizing their land. Apparently if we were just out landing in a private machine, it was ok. but the fact that we were conducting flight training, that was a no no.

[r44]

Interesting, thanks for the replys. Does anyone have law restricting landing on blm or forest service? I know we should get permission, but there are certain situations where getting permission in advance is very hard.

[r44]

Something very interesting... The feds say it is requested to maintain 2000 feet agl above wilderness areas, except certain parks where is actually states it on the sectional. California document says it is unlawful but isn't it federal airspace and outside of California's authority?

[apiaguy]

If it's forest service, BLM or fish and game land and it is in nowhere land... I will land at will... (EXCEPT WILDERNESS) Most rangers and the like don't understand their own rules for helicopter landings and unless there is one around to ask for a specific area I don't bother... of course an exception is where exactly is it... what is your purpose.. etc..

 

What will happen if the ranger sees you is he'll report you to the faa... if they are able to approach you they might give you a citation... otherwise they are mostly interested in why you are stopped there.

 

You are correct on the wilderness/state parks... that is the recommended altitude... no law I know of that has a penalty except those special places (grand canyon etc..)

[Goldy]

Something very interesting... The feds say it is requested to maintain 2000 feet agl above wilderness areas, except certain parks where is actually states it on the sectional. California document says it is unlawful but isn't it federal airspace and outside of California's authority?

 

R44- you are correct. The state of CA has a law requiring you to fly 2000AGL over certain of their protected lands. It should be FAA rules, which don't require it, they only suggest it. However, no one has challenged the law in court, so she still stands.

 

Again, most pilots just don't know. Under what circumstances would you want to go fly into USFS land and not know it ahead of time?

 

Personally, I have found my local USFS the easiest to deal with....just a phone call.

[r44]

If we were out looking for new comm sites and wanted to land at one we just found, or ... after a big storm where multiple comm sites were down and we didn't know other sites needed attention until the first one was restored...

 

I can't find anything in the far/aim restricting landing on public land without permission. I also can't find any federal laws restricting helicopters from landing on usfs or blm land. If there isn't any, they wouldn't be able to site you correct?

[Goldy]

I also can't find any federal laws restricting helicopters from landing on usfs or blm land. If there isn't any, they wouldn't be able to site you correct?

Read CFR Part 36, 261.10 sections a thru j. I'm not a fed, so I don't know all the sections that might pertain. This one covers any maintenance on communications facilities and requires a written op plan.

 

If its a wilderness area then this applies:

 

261.18 National Forest Wilderness.

top

The following are prohibited in a National Forest Wilderness:

 

(a) Possessing or using a motor vehicle, motorboat or motorized equipment except as authorized by Federal Law or regulation.

 

( Possessing or using a hang glider or bicycle.

 

© Landing of aircraft, or dropping or picking up of any material, supplies, or person by means of aircraft, including a helicopter.

 

[42 FR 2957, Jan. 14, 1977, as amended at 42 FR 35959, July 13, 1977; 50 FR 16231, Apr. 25, 1985. Redesignated at 70 FR 68291, Nov. 9, 2005]

 

Every leasee on federal land knows who his liason is on the fed side. A phone call to that ranger and you can do it.

 

Good luck..

Edited December 1, 2010 by Goldy

[r44]

perfect thanks for the help on this.

[Marc D]

Here's a partial answer from the AIM:

 

7-4-6. Flights Over Charted U.S. Wildlife Refuges, Parks, and Forest Service Areas

 

a. The landing of aircraft is prohibited on lands or waters administered by the National Park Service, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, or U.S. Forest Service without authorization from the respective agency. Exceptions include:

 

1. When forced to land due to an emergency beyond the control of the operator;

 

2. At officially designated landing sites; or

 

3. An approved official business of the Federal Government.

[Goldy]

Here's a partial answer from the AIM:

 

7-4-6. Flights Over Charted U.S. Wildlife Refuges, Parks, and Forest Service Areas

 

a. The landing of aircraft is prohibited on lands or waters administered by the National Park Service, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, or U.S. Forest Service without authorization from the respective agency. Exceptions include:

 

1. When forced to land due to an emergency beyond the control of the operator;

 

2. At officially designated landing sites; or

 

3. An approved official business of the Federal Government.

4. When no one sees you.

[HeloJunkie]

The attached voicemail might help. This was in reference to a specific area of BLM land out by the Salton Sea in the California area.

 

I keep a copy of this voicemail on my ipod when I am landing on the BLM land just in case!

 

BLM_Voicemail_1-29-2010.wav

 

Your mileage may very

[Goldy]

The attached voicemail might help. This was in reference to a specific area of BLM land out by the Salton Sea in the California area.

 

I keep a copy of this voicemail on my ipod when I am landing on the BLM land just in case!

 

BLM_Voicemail_1-29-2010.wav

 

Your mileage may very

 

Hey Richard, long time, no talk!

 

I have never had an issue with BLM, but I am so saving that file!!

 

Hope all is well with the 500

[HeloJunkie]

Hey Richard, long time, no talk!

 

I have never had an issue with BLM, but I am so saving that file!!

 

Hope all is well with the 500

 

Hey Goldy -

 

Yea, that's why I posted it...maybe others can benefit from it as well!!

 

500 is going well...heading for external paint on the 3rd of January. Been super busy with flying and everything that I have not made a blog update in a bit, but lots of pics of the 500 on my flickr site.

 

Just got back from Canada flying the EC120B with Canadian Helicopters and ran into another VR guy at the Pentiction airport up there...too funny!

 

Hope all is well with you!!

[Goldy]

Just got back from Canada flying the EC120B with Canadian Helicopters and ran into another VR guy at the Pentiction airport up there...too funny!

 

Hope all is well with you!!

 

Did that happen to be Eric ?

[Whistlerpilot]

No, I'm back in Pemberton BC which does sound similar to Penticton but is a 3 hour flight or 7 hour drive from CYPS.

 

250 cm of snow on the glaciers here, a great start to the heliski season.

 

Eric

[Goldy]

No, I'm back in Pemberton BC which does sound similar to Penticton but is a 3 hour flight or 7 hour drive from CYPS.

 

250 cm of snow on the glaciers here, a great start to the heliski season.

 

Eric

 

Yeah, you were the only one I know who travels in the great North !

[HeloJunkie]

Did that happen to be Eric ?

 

Nope - It was Garry Chernoff. Nice R44 too!!

[photosforyou]

What about if you want to land your film helicopter in a state park or even a national park would that be ok?

[apiaguy]

you would have to get permission from the park ranger or hnic... the answer will be no way... but there are ways to do it.. and if filming is your venture then I would contact the director of the park and explain away. Anything is possible with enough money and a positive attitude.

[Goldy]

What about if you want to land your film helicopter in a state park or even a national park would that be ok?

 

USFS and BLM are much easier to get permission than state and national parks are.

[lmann]

helojunkie, your vm attachment is no longer there…what did it say?